I was at work today at a place that I was put in temporarily for. I had worked there for a few months, a while back, but I hadn't been there in two weeks.
There is a mail man who is middle aged and has a wife and two kids who delivers there. I would shoot the breeze with him, nothing too personal, politics, religion, health topics, he'd talk about his family and I'd give him advice... Everything he knows about me, he could tell from observing me, my wedding ring and the religious texts I read at work when I'm not on a call...
Today he came in and greeted my very happily, I went to shake his hand and he pulled me in and hugged me and kissed me on the neck. I was shocked, but I hoped he was just being friendly. I should have known then but I didn't suspect, it was just a light peck, he's married, his daughters are my age... he went across the street and came back with a delivery for the downstairs mail room, and asked me to come along with him.
I'm a security guard, I don't refuse clients, tenants or any workers of the building for routine tasks. Honest to God, I suspected nothing. Once down there, he started telling me about how his marriage was going down the crapper, he started massaging my back and I tried to laugh it off but by that point I was scared, hoping that it was in my head and he was just being friendly. I knew differently but I was just so... nervous.
He hugged me, tried to kiss me, I pushed him off and laughed, told him he was drunk. I was trying to stay friendly, to not anger him. I didn't want him to be angry at me, I have never been more scared in my life. Hoping, hoping that I would get a call, that someone would come down there, something.
He continued, and I tried pushing him off, making jokes, laughing it off, putting my hands into my pockets, everything but he would not budge. I even grabbed at his side, trying to joke it off with him, hoping to God it was all just some over-played joke. But he kept telling me how cute I was, how he wasn't interested in fidelity. I tried to be friendly, I remembered the last time this happened to me and how much the other guy hurt me and I was scared. So scared.
Eventually I push him off for the last time and tell him that I'm telling his wife. He quits... He puts my hand on his chest and I try to make a boob joke and then he grabs mine and the elevator opens and I'm just so happy to be away from him. I was so scared, he never acted like this before. He's old enough to be my father, I didn't want to piss him off.
I feel like it's all my fault. My uniform was not revealing at all, long sleeve shirt, slacks and a blazer. I am not attracted to him at all, I am married. I did not enjoy it, but I did not firmly tell him to stop. I tried asking him, telling him that my back was fine, that I took a painkiller. I tried humoring him, but god damn I was so scared. I've never been more frightened in my life. I didn't flirt with him, anything like that.
I know that there are going to be individuals coming here to try to tell me that it was my fault somehow, that I am not telling all of the truth, that I had it coming, that all females like playing the victim and that I'm one of them. I know they might tell me that men get it worse, that I was flirting with him and that I'm just trying to get a defenseless man in trouble. That is not true, the last thing I want to do is get him into trouble. I will value your opinion, but I will not humor such concepts or assassination of my character with debate. Thank you for your time.
So should I report it, was I sexually harassed?
There is a mail man who is middle aged and has a wife and two kids who delivers there. I would shoot the breeze with him, nothing too personal, politics, religion, health topics, he'd talk about his family and I'd give him advice... Everything he knows about me, he could tell from observing me, my wedding ring and the religious texts I read at work when I'm not on a call...
Today he came in and greeted my very happily, I went to shake his hand and he pulled me in and hugged me and kissed me on the neck. I was shocked, but I hoped he was just being friendly. I should have known then but I didn't suspect, it was just a light peck, he's married, his daughters are my age... he went across the street and came back with a delivery for the downstairs mail room, and asked me to come along with him.
I'm a security guard, I don't refuse clients, tenants or any workers of the building for routine tasks. Honest to God, I suspected nothing. Once down there, he started telling me about how his marriage was going down the crapper, he started massaging my back and I tried to laugh it off but by that point I was scared, hoping that it was in my head and he was just being friendly. I knew differently but I was just so... nervous.
He hugged me, tried to kiss me, I pushed him off and laughed, told him he was drunk. I was trying to stay friendly, to not anger him. I didn't want him to be angry at me, I have never been more scared in my life. Hoping, hoping that I would get a call, that someone would come down there, something.
He continued, and I tried pushing him off, making jokes, laughing it off, putting my hands into my pockets, everything but he would not budge. I even grabbed at his side, trying to joke it off with him, hoping to God it was all just some over-played joke. But he kept telling me how cute I was, how he wasn't interested in fidelity. I tried to be friendly, I remembered the last time this happened to me and how much the other guy hurt me and I was scared. So scared.
Eventually I push him off for the last time and tell him that I'm telling his wife. He quits... He puts my hand on his chest and I try to make a boob joke and then he grabs mine and the elevator opens and I'm just so happy to be away from him. I was so scared, he never acted like this before. He's old enough to be my father, I didn't want to piss him off.
I feel like it's all my fault. My uniform was not revealing at all, long sleeve shirt, slacks and a blazer. I am not attracted to him at all, I am married. I did not enjoy it, but I did not firmly tell him to stop. I tried asking him, telling him that my back was fine, that I took a painkiller. I tried humoring him, but god damn I was so scared. I've never been more frightened in my life. I didn't flirt with him, anything like that.
I know that there are going to be individuals coming here to try to tell me that it was my fault somehow, that I am not telling all of the truth, that I had it coming, that all females like playing the victim and that I'm one of them. I know they might tell me that men get it worse, that I was flirting with him and that I'm just trying to get a defenseless man in trouble. That is not true, the last thing I want to do is get him into trouble. I will value your opinion, but I will not humor such concepts or assassination of my character with debate. Thank you for your time.
So should I report it, was I sexually harassed?
The problem was that he was getting physical, I understand that most men that come on to me are not going to rape me as I've been in the situation before and I was able to just joke it out with them and turn them down whilst saving them some... erm... pride I guess you could say, but once he grabbed me and made it necessary that I push him off, in my head, anything could have been possible.
That said, if I ever have to work the post again, I'll have to balls up and tell him. I try to be friendly because I understand that some of the men that I deal with are mentally strange but that obviously won't work with more aggressive men...
One thing I will definitely *NOT* tell you is that it was your fault. You were being friendly. There are plenty of women I'm on a very friendly basis with at work. But the key word is "friendly". It's derived from the word "friend". That's where it stays. I have actually been propositioned at work but it in no way made me feel threatened so there's nothing to report. Your situation is different.
Whether you put it down to a mistake and warn him that any further behaviour like that will be reported, or whether you pre-empt it and go straight for the report, is up to you. You shouldn't be put in that position. It may not be deliberate harassment, but you felt harassed; and for pretty solid reasons.
By the way, I reformatted it. I meant for it to be a poll. An IIN question would have been odd, as I didn't ask for normality.
It's just odd... It hasn't happened to me at work before and while I am friendly to him, I don't flirt with him, I hardly know his name. Thanks for the advice.
Hey! Panda bear! We don't take kindly to your types in here!
Now, calm down, Skeeter. He ain't hurtin' nobody.
NO! I wanna know somthin' from Mr. Panda Bear here! If you pandas are from mountainous areas of China and Tibet, how come you eat bamboo, which is prone to grow only in drier, more arid regions?!
Sk-heeter, I don't want no trouble nu-how.
It's okay. I get it. There's no room in the world for pandas. Well, you don't have to worry about me! I'm off to the Island of Misfit Mascots!
Problem is that I should have put my foot down somewhere but for some reason I felt like I was going to get my ass kicked. He did not seem violent but I didn't think I had a viable option other than to play along and hope he lost interest.
One thing I noticed about your post was that you did a lot of assuming of what he 'knew' or should know, or should have notice and recognized. That's your first mistake. Never assume you know what they know (or they know what you know), or are on the same page. Also, he may 'know' but not care. You just can't ever be sure about what's going on in someone's head. You let those assumptions put you at risk. Please don't take that as a statement of blame, I understand how you're thinking and why and all, I'm simply saying assumptions are worthless when it comes to this sort of thing and it's best to err on the side of caution.
This man was in the least unprofessional and at worst probably criminal. You did nothing wrong because you shouldn't have to deal with this shit EVER, you shouldn't have to be put in this position. Sucks that it happens though, and for your own safety you just need to put out the 'never fuck with me' vibe. I think he took advantage of your personality and your joking manner, which is shitty, but it's what people do. Some people are predators and they just know how to sniff out the best victims, they'll take any weakness you have and exploit it. I guess what I'm saying is, you can't change what other people do really, you can only change how you are and how you deal with things, so be strong, firm and upfront and be 100% professional at work. I think you gave this man an inch and he took a mile, and that's typical.
Sorry I can't help you more with whether or not to report it, I'd say just consider ALL angles, all pro's and con's before deciding. Some of the things you said about how he did this and that make me really think though that this isn't his first rodeo. I really don't know though, whether or not to report it.
Be soft and nice and friendly, people will like you, guys will like you, but they'll try to step all over you.
Put out the tough girl, "don't fuck with me I might be packing" vibe and you're safe... but now everyone's intimidated by you and you get lots of rude comments everywhere you go.
But that may be in part becasue people in my hometown are close minded bigots. :) I wonder how they manage with the college here, all us freaks running around offending their rural sensiblities. ;P
My manager is also a friend of mine in the company, and I told him not to send me there again. You're right, I might have given him too much of an inch. I am used to being flirt with at work so maybe I don't recognize it anymore when it happens. If he weren't married, I'd report him in an instant but I don't want this, in any way, becoming a my word against his situation because he would be the far more credible source (his age, work experience, etc.)/
I don't really think there's a right way to act in such a situation. If you would've acted more firmly, there are two options. Either he would've stopped sooner, or he could've gotten aggravated and started doing something worse. You played it as safe as you could.
I don't know if this is a proper analogy, but when someone gets beaten up, it's not his fault because he didn't take boxing lessons. It's the assailant's fault, no matter what.
The good thing is, it's over now. And you have all the right to report him.
But if I was your husband I'd whoop his ass. You should report it to him.
But then I'm not a big fan of the justice system. I'm more of the vigilante type.
When I see a car, I don't ask people if it's a car. I know it's a car, because I know what cars are.
"the religious texts I read at work"
Obviously he knows you're stupid, at a wild guess.
I'm sorry, but it's nobody's fault you became some fat fuck's bitch so early in your life.
You gotta let it go, see a shrink, meditate.. live and let live, man.
Its one thing to 'study' religions (I'd say that would be quite interesting actually) But to be religious? That's just pathetic.
I generally laugh at people who say they are religious.
Plus if during a conversation they announce that they are christian (or any other ridiculous religious belief) I think to myself, I'm seriously speaking to a weak minded individual. Hey are you one? I need a good laugh.
I find ALL religious people shameful, and with good cause to.
I live in the real world btw.
If you like science -cool, go see a good psychiatrist to help you with that massive butthurt of yours.
But this isn't about my religion or academic habits. I don't care what the hell you believe. If you want to trust only what your eyes see, then let it be so. But this same science has done nothing but prove that your eyes are not always truthful...
Whereas religious people are definitely not. This confirmed through the facts we now know today, and there are STILL people believing in this retarded fairytale.
Pretty sure that makes me a whole lot more wiser.
And please don't talk in tongues to me or pray for me, right now I am just sad for you.
You say thay you're open to the truth yet you so closed mindedly discard something that has influenced almost every facet of humanity since the dawn of it's existence, even influencing you as you sit. You're not open to the truth, you're open to what you think the truth should be.
There's little fundamental difference between you and the bible thumpers that will never admit the imperfections of.their sacred document. People that think that the truth should be as convenient as storing all of your faith and knowledge into one vested interest, rather than having to actually use their minds to study all possibilities, to entertain all thoughts and to seek the truth in every available facet.
But no, that's just too hard. It's against your morals, your delicate ego, to at least attempt to.comprehend what you don't agree with. I've told.this to many "religious" people too. Cling to your prejudice and your ignorance disguised as logic. If anyone here deserves pity, it's you.
Anyway, when you say 'humanity', quite obviously you understand that people themselves have only been around for 200 thousand years. Whereas the Earth has existed (with other life as well) for about 4 and a half billion years, plus our entire universe for about 13.7 billion years!
So it is a tad strange that I should open up a little more to this human god concept, when he seemed to have waited 13.5 Billion years to then allow only people into heaven!!!! Since they had to evolve first of course.
IF, you are just speaking of opening my mind to a 'god' that may exist, irrespective of the tiny amount of time humans have been here (obviously, I hope you agree in this rational thinking) Then he has made NO input, especially to humans, and done absolutely nothing (?) I find it very strange that I should open my mind up to something that has not done anything at all. Plus there are no (zero) evidence. Even the dinosaurs (living many more thousands of years earlier) didn't even create some type of symbol or anything in tribute to their god? Its awfully strange that 'people' who fear dieing etc, seem to be the only species that have brought up this god concept. Unless you feel its intelligence based? If so, then I'm with you on that one, we are slowly but surely finding the facts of the universe and where we came from. They even teach evolution as fact in school now (religion has been laughed out, I'm sure you must be saddened by this reality)
Do note the theory of gravity still does not have as much PROOF as the theory of evolution.
You do feel gravity is real I hope? Maybe you think god is weighing you down LOL
A realist (ie me) has merit in being in our world. Because we stop people from screaming in fear at made up fairytales. But please, what facts do you have about supernaturals? Because no one has EVER provided anything at all. Who knows, maybe you're right. VERY UNLIKELY.
Kids (teenagers on this forum) have this philosophy idea, that thankfully we all grow out of (well most anyway) Its a standard childlike point of view. Note there is no conspiracy or devil or god, its all just natural. Imagine that (I suspect you cannot).
Have you so little knowledge of religion that you truly believe that all religion can be is the manifestation of the stupidity that is hard core, nutjob shitfaced Western religion? Have you any education at all, or do you live in a town in which the only religious people are waving fliers advertising their hatred of gay people?
Like a teenager yourself, sir, for someone who claims to be so enlightened, to be living in the real world in which ALL avenues of academia, from the religious, to the political to the pseudoscientific are worth reading about and learning in an attempt the discover the truth, which goes far beyond gravity and into a dimension of knowledge that we humans are just barely coming to understand, you, like a child who demands the same brand of simplicity that comes with picking one favorite color and hating all others, think that it is in any way permissible in the realm of knowledge and truth to discount possibilities of truth when science, your precious God that is science, has shown us that there is much more to the universe than the formulas and maps that we have today.
But as I said before, it is easy to predetermine "there is no value in studying this subject, therefore it can not possibly contain any sort of viable knowledge", just like how a high school student grumbles in class they they'll never use Algebra in the "real world", so they're wasting their time sitting there. And that's what children do, they go for what is easy to understand because their minds are not developed enough to comprehend that there is such a large number of knowledges and truths out there that one must not discount any study of academia as defunct. They go for this until they grow up, open a book, become educated, and realize that religion is much more than the painting on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, they open their minds because they are no longer children and on that note, I'd suggest you wake up too.
Knowledge is everywhere, and science has proven that the answers are too. To say that an entire facet of human culture is devoid of truth and knowledge and to reduce it to the stereotype that the simple minded love clinging to (much how idiotic Christians love the stereotype of the Darwin theory, that apes are literally our cousins), is to do yourself a great disservice. And for that, sir, you, and every other closed minded human being on this Earth, religious or other wise, deserves my pity, and the pity of the human race that is constantly being held back by such a mentality.
I am fully aware of history. Even my own parents were the president of the historical society where we grew up in a large city (pretty sure that's when I first realized I was atheist, born that way, like everyone else, and still the same today)
I'm not concerned of the excellent contributions that the Middle East (areas) have previously given our world. I am concerned of the 'religious' hypocrisy and the fact that since 'Islam' have now placed religion in their society fully, guess what, they are now the stupidest country in the world.
As for any other (hundreds if not thousands) years ago, great contributor to science (if they didn't get killed first) Of course they were religious minded. They had no idea back then, no proof, nothing.
We have come a long way since then. Evolution is not the best 'idea'. It is based on evidence, facts, history, research. We have fully confirmed (pretty sure its 99.9999999% confirmed now) that we all evolved, including the universe. This is common knowledge. Are you disregarding all these scientists research, discoveries and lifetime of work on the matter? We have seen galaxies evolve already. They come from gases circling around itself (gravity thing again) forming solids. Its all pretty much common sense when you think about it.
YES, I place all religious belief in one hat. Since they are ALL wrong. And before you stop reading here (since this is your point that I'm not open) Religion MUST be wrong, otherwise which one of the MILLIONS of religious beliefs (and the 50 or so big ones) is right? Not sure, but I'm swaying towards > NONE.
That's why I gave you some hope in hell, and mentioned maybe just a belief in god? No religion intended. No probs, and you base that upon????????? Just answer that one question, if you decide to reply. Do note, I'll reply seconds later with how there is NO information/proof/facts or anything EVER even the tiniest bit EVER related to there being a god. Except of course the LACK of evidence. BTW, that's ATHEIST.
And wow, your parents were historians!? Good for you! My Dad was a sailor, does that give me the same merit that his skills and abilities gained from 20 years of military service give him? No? Then I don't give a rat's ass what your parents did for a living.
And those religious minded people were of the old world, huh? Because my favorite example, Einstein, a man who was born of the same century we were born in, had absolutely no idea that there was any such thing as atheism. Because atheism is a new development in human history. Because Darwin's texts and theories were published yesterday.
All I'm saying, and you can reply if you want or not, I don't really care, is that every avenue of knowledge deserves looking into. There is such a vast quantity of knowledge and you just sit there and say that one one facet is worth any sort of merit. I'm not talking about just science, I am talking about knowledge in general to develop an understanding of the world and humanity in general.
And you're trying to imply that I am uneducated, funny because this
"That's why I gave you some hope in hell, and mentioned maybe just a belief in god? No religion intended. No probs, and you base that upon????????? Just answer that one question, if you decide to reply."
statement makes no damned sense in or outside of context. Or is it a question? Base what upon what? I want to answer you but if you're not going to be in the least bit coherent with me then it's not worth it.
I am not going to waste anymore time on this. I'm not going to continue trying to convince you that blue is not the only color in the rainbow, that the puzzle piece that you are looking at is not the only piece to said puzzle, that there IS a puzzle to begin with. If you only with to see the world through one lense, like the Christians that refuse anything but what is written in their religious document, then as I would say those Christians, I can't help you.
Well hell, I guess I did make a long reply.
I was on an atheist forum once and I asked a similar thing. What if there is a god and we are the ones that are wrong (although utterly unlikely, it still need to be asked to people such as yourself)
The reply was, we cannot make up something then prove it. What we do is base our findings on facts and build from there. We may eventually get to a godlike theory that contains some substance, but we must first start from the start. Otherwise we could just as easily say there is a flying spaghetti monster prove me wrong! We start with rational common sense and known facts and build from there.
On top of that, the chances of a supernatural existing (note this being extremely complex NOT simple) Is so unlikely, scientists do not even research the subject any longer. Presently we are looking at molecular atoms (two weeks ago the discovery of the higgs boson) AND a planet that could sustain life (the 'bible' for one, does not cater for such a thing, except maybe angels LOL)
I prefer to continue this natural understanding and expect more discoveries in our universe (ie the new long range telescope to be sent out into space in the next couple of years)
Religion (or just a belief in god) Is counter productive for humans. Great as a history topic, does nothing for developing mankind into the future (as per normal).
If you want to continue studying religion, know that it is dieing.
Exactly what do you label yourself as? If you are brave enough to presently say (anonymously!)
I re-read this topic over again (again twice over) and tried my best (in my biased viewpoints!) too somehow think outside of the square. I feel that it is not safe presently to allow this type of thought in our world. Remove all religion, then I'll think about other things. The problem is that a person who defends religion (even as an open mind) continues to place barriers up in the scientific community, plus since religion is extremely immoral and fearful to many, it would be best to kill it off as soon as possible.
I do dream. But at this stage (in our world) religion is just so dangerous generally for children. I'm thankful that it has been separated from state laws and education (at least in civilized countries). Hopefully these old concepts will die off on the next generation or two. I'm hoping yes. THEN we can have a civilized conversation on opening our minds to other ideas.
String theory itself is the closest I'll get to (way out there) physics ideas, at least that is using science to explain quantum mechanics and relativity WITH facts.
Philosophy is just too damn religious at the moment, meaning that no one can be a philosopher without trying their best to explain that they don't just mean religion!
Anyway, hope you know what I mean. Religion is truly a bad word, please ban it :)
Thanks for the extra info ;)
Don't worry too much, once my work is done I'll likely move on. So get everyone to agree with me and all will be ok :)
I find that America's kids are not getting the clear understanding of how religion is now thought of as shameful. (It seems to be the US and the Middle east, do note I was previously on a Middle East board debating with girls wanting to wear hijabs etc, its the same thing here for me)
Religion is not fashionable anymore.