Anime Frustration.

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I have absolutely nothing constructive or intelligent to say except that I thought your essay was well thought out, impressive, and passionate! Although lengthy, it actually had punctuation and held my attention, so much so that I have to research this subject because I am apparently unfamiliar with this "art" form. I also appreciate the beauty of classical art. Stay passionate in what you believe in and good luck in art college!

I'm glad that I brought your attention to this controversial subject among younger artists, and thanks for your attention and appreciation for the finer arts. It gives me some hope for the art world. Hopefully it won't be over run with this anime everywhere. And yes, I actually proof read everything I write to make sure that I make sense. I get irritated when people post and you can't really understand what it is they are typing. Just...thanks over all. I now have hope. :)

Come back and let me know what you find in your research.

I think you're using anime as a scapegoat to blame your shortfalls. Your opening sentence is: 'I am an artist, I am pretty decent and will be going off to art college soon' is solid proof of this. You feel you need to justify yourself. This shows you are insecure. I don't blame you, what artist isn't? It's ok.

if you haven't already. There are certain things in life you can't change, but that doesn't mean you have to conform to them. Draw what interests you, not what's popular and be prepared for a tough road ahead.

Let me guess, you are upset because someone dissed your beloved, perverted anime?

ahhhhhh, i'm so glad you brought this up! i'm also a young artist taking animation, and I've always been into the "western-style" type of animation, esp. Looney Tunes and Ren & Stimpy. So much of my class are people who won't draw anything but anime characters (and it's very hard to make these characters have any variety), and when they finally try the western way they only do it very grudgingly. Did you see what they've done to the Looney Tunes with this new "Extreme Buzz Bunny" crap? So many new shows coming out for kids are trying to be anime.

They come out looking slick but these cartoons have no life. I'm also starting to despise "graffiti art"-type cartoons, once again all slickness and no life.

Yes I realise there is some anime out there that is very worthwhile, but anime in general is very bland.

Thank you for bringing this up. Everyone else seems to think that the people that draw up 6 nearly-identical Sailor Scouts are more talented than John K or Chuck Jones, etc.

Yeah and also, I forgot to add, just keep drawing the way you want to and ignore the anime hype. If your drawings have a life of their own to them, most people with half a brain will recognize real talent and not just slickness.

I feel the same about anime as I do about abstract art and rap music....it irritates me. I got my degree in Graphic Arts in '82 and some things never change my friend. I sucked at any kind of cartoons too. It's sad when you can create something good, you design/draw/paint for hours and some person in your Still Life class churns out a few well placed splotches on paper. A pattern of repeated skribbles with a pretty font got the best mark. He could not draw to save his life. Our whole class was outraged.
Anyway, you see what I mean? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a generation or just a blip in fashion can change how the public sees 'art'. Whatever catches the eye and sells.
Monet wasn't popular at first, he was new and wasn't a classical artist. "But is it art?" they were all asking. Maybe yesteryears early Impressionists were todays anime artists. Anything Andy Warhol'esque today is bland. Good ol' Snoopy and Bugs don't sell anymore, so what does? Anime for the time being (she shrugs) until it becomes passe.
I think Chuck Jones, Pink Floyd and Monet rule but that's just me. I'm old school, umm, just old I guess. Jeez, making movies of old TV shows? don't get me started! Hey you boys, those pants are way too baggy, grow some hair will ya and turn your bass down man, you're harshing out my mellow.

Although many or even most young artists might disagree with you, I'd have to say it's normal. Although I do enjoy some anime movies/shows, I don't really see it as an art form. Very rarely do they have the style and artistic flare to justify their simplistic, unrealistic looks, but I certainly think there are a few out there. I do, however, get highly annoyed by all those young "artists" that draw the same simplistic junk as everyone else. I don't think it's art at all when people just draw the same stuff over and over and there's no technical value in it. I've become VERY annoyed with this trend as well. This whole thing kind of reminds me of a quote. "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to reconsider." May not be word for word, but that's pretty close. Keep up your own style. I believe art is all about finding and perfecting your own style!

I absolutely have no interest what so ever in anime. I think it’s boring to look at and it just doesn’t give me any feeling. However, though reluctantly, I do recognize anime as art. I don’t believe art is just something pretty or nice to look at. It’s got to do with the thought behind it. It’s an ultimate form of communication. What some art means, I’ll never know because I don’t understand the person who created it. I'm just surprised to see artists disregarding new forms of art and even calling them anti-art forms. I do believe that for any artist, the basic, classical teachings must be taught and from there an artist can grow into his or her own style. Classical, abstract, pop, surreal, and even anime. Some art I absolutely hate and don’t get. But I know its art. I’m sure that there are artworks that you have found boring, over-worked, or even disgusting. And yet you know its art. Well art is always going to be changing with the times as more and more things are accepted. I don’t like anime, cartoons, whatever. But I don’t feel pressured by it. My art's my own, for me. Some people like it. Some don’t. I just love doing it either way.

Annie-may is 2 art u fuck t4rd u shood b sht 4 jus7 tinking ov dat u ashol! i luv annie-may it iz ma live!

that comment about loving anime really destroyed any hope I had left for humanity. You are kidding right?

Yeah, me too. Oh the humanity! That 'annie-may' must be a clever joke though; an anime freak that cannot spell. I'm not 'LOL' but I am sniggering at the amusing thought of such a pathetic loon. An anime freak that can't spell! Good one 'annie-may'. Keep those witty retorts coming.

Oh my..."sniggering" not allowed. Snickering then?

I believe you are generalizing. Anime is such a large genre, that it it hard to say that none of it is valid. It might not be difficult to draw, but that is only part of the form. Some anime, such as "Grave of the Fireflies" touches on very sensitive issues. A lot of anime is about plot developement. I agree that some anime is trash, but some of it should be taken seriously.

People like Anime because they like the way it looks, not because of the talent or lack thereof it takes to create.

It seems like you are frustrated that you don't recieve the same attention with your art. As an artist you should know that ANY form of artistic expression IS art! It doesn't matter how difficult it is to make or how long it takes.

Have you noticed that although the human facial characteristics are simplified in anime, often the backgrounds are very intricate? Animes like GITS deserve some credit.

This is gonna be long: please be patient (I'll give you some candy if you read the comment all the way through). Well, I’m not an ‘artist’. I draw, yes, but I have no formal training apart from 2 years in high school art class
…where I learned nothing at all (basically I’m self taught). I love to do it, but I’m afraid I’ll never be good enough to make a living out of it, though most people say I should definitely try it (this is just so you know I’m sensitive about art too).
If anyone says you’re criticizing a specific art style because you’re not good enough at it, they’re completely out of touch. It’s because you love anything related to art and feel passionately about it. Feel free to say whatever you want about what bugs you, that’s what freedom of speech is about.
Now, about Anime: I like Anime, but not all of it.
Just like I like Disney, comics, fantasy art, but not all of it, just like I like modern art, but not all of it.
I have to say must stuff that passes around like Anime nowadays is absolute dung. There’s good Anime and there’s extremely bad Anime too, and if you ever get any sort of urge to research the subject, don’t stick to Pokemon or Sailor Moon because there’s a whole lot of Japanese animation that’s simply breathtaking. Anime started a long time ago, and you have so much great stuff to look at and enjoy. Seriously.
About Hentai (the pornographic anime): I don’t agree that’s it’s ALL abusive towards women (I’m a woman, btw). I like some of it, but, of course, some is just too ridiculous for me – especially the tentacle thing. There’s lots about gay sex, both for men and men’s tastes [yaoi is specifically directed at women (or so they say *snicker*), and it’s about men getting it on with other men, so… they also have us girls’ interest in mind].
I can look at an Ingres painting and admire the perfection of the skin, the accuracy of the depiction, but I also recognize it’s dull, dead and inexpressive. I can say Pollock was full of crap and his paintings were basically its paint poured randomly on a canvas, but I recognize the emotional side of it and the dynamics of the piece. Comic’s artists aren’t recognized as great artists, but call me crazy, I’d rather have something by Alex Ross hanging on my walls than any of Gauguin’s paintings! (I wouldn't say 'no' to having Gauguin, of course: I'd just sell it and keep the money)
Hate Anime if you want, but please recognize its importance and impact on world culture.

In the end, that’s what art does: it provokes, it stirs emotions and gives birth to passions and antagonisms.

I'll send you the candy later. ;)

I feel that I have the background necessary to respond properly. I am a very good artist. My teacher told me that of I was in the top five students he had ever taught, at least. I just happen to love anime. I think that anime, done well, is absolutely beautiful. Western attempts at anime are pathetic, I agree. But Hayao Miyazaki's films are more than enough to prove that anime is just as valid an animation style as any other. I think, based on your post-script begging those who you look down your nose at to keep their unintellegent comments to themselves, and your attitude regarding art forms, that you are a prototypical snob. I suggest that you remove the stick from your arse.

I appreciated your commentary.

Within the human race, there are a variety of preferences and attractions.

I have seen anime that took my breath away; and I have seen anime that made my eyes roll.

I have been a fan since I was 17; I am now 29. (OH - and by the way, I'm female.)

My husband has been a fan for 20 years.

If the annual increase in attendence at Ohayo-Con is any indication, it's not going away.

It is not so much a stretch for an anime fan to appreciate classical art.

I know someone who loves the current top 40 country artists, Eminem, Josh Groban, Acid House, Sarah Brightman, Dead Can Dance, Elton John, Filk, Bach, and soundtracks from Broadway Musicals. That's a pretty eclectic mix spinning in someone's CD changer. And by the way... that someone is me.

But who says I can't like Eminem and still appreciate Enya?

Stepping off my soap box now. Bye!

^-^

Art is whatever people say it is. There's a lot of demand for anime, and lots of people want to produce it. There are no rights and wrongs in art, only work and appreciation of that work. You have a choice: you can stay passionate about your particular choice of style and deny the validity of others, or you can learn about and appreciate as much as possible. The best artists, I think, learn as much as they can, but then often return to their origins much wiser.

By the way, I recommend "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud. Not about anime, but a good start in understanding the comic art form.

I have never understood anime. I'm going to do my Art AS next year, and i spend my entire time practicing how to draw/paint/sculpt people correctly. I like some forms of abstract art - magritte and kahlo and dali - but that is because obvious skill was required to produce them. I like painting skies because it is a real challenge. The mouths and noses in anime in particular annoy me. The mouths open right to the chin when the character is yelling, and time is supposed to be taken over the nose, one of the hardest parts of the human form to produce. The anime just has a triangle.
I intend to go on to do an art degree. I believe that if you are looking at cartoons as art, why aren't you looking at Roy Lichtenstein? Now there's a cartoon style worth mastering.

does this really justify all this beard-stroking and soul-searching. different people have different tastes and like different things. duh. thats not really a problem is it?

I think anime deserves just as much attention as any other artistic animation. The japanese style of animation is very interesting. If you actually study it, they have a very unique way of adding very detailed artwork w/ motionless backrounds. I really don't watch it that much, but I'm an artist myself and I don't want to see a whole style shot down. It's funny you said that it's even on the Disney channel, because that's where the first anime artists got the idea of the "big eyes". They saw the full-length disney features and wanted to make ones like them. As far as the pornography goes, it is true that a lot of anime is like that, but you have to realize that here is the west, we believe that animation is for children (other than South Park and few other shows). Over there, they are movies just like any other movies so they have just as many R rated cartoons as they have G rated ones (or whatever thier rating system is over there).

anime is stupid and really lame. It shows no art at all. My brothers see's it on a cartoon. That is surely not art. I agree with you

your so funny

The face has big D shaped eyes and pointy beardless chins and wrong-colored stringy hair. There is no signal-to-noise ratio here.

sniggering

so is cutting a coo in half.
Every decade seems to have its own animation style. Look at the really early cartoons, those strange eyes, strange clothes. Sound familiar.

What i don't like is cartoons i grew up with being re-done with an anime effect because they look so pathetic.
Those teenage mutant hero turtles are evil looking now.

Saying all anime is bad after seeing some crappy sunday kid's cartoon is like saying all mexican food is bad after only trying Taco Bell.

u FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU KIN SUCK man anime rules. its only up 2 the human mind 2decide if its art not some old timers thinkin ohh wow its not really art its just colurfun scribbles..not 2 disrespect but screw what other people think. its just reall stupin for things 2 get judged caus some1 thinks their opinion really is right. in the end its only people who love the stuff otheres chritizes that lives on so yeah. go anime!

I don't understand how any of the issues you have with anime can't also be applied to 'western' cartoons.

Art, true art, is always ahead of its time. Anything popular in the moment [ie. Anime, Salvador Dali, a lot of "modern" art] is/was mere fashion. However, fashion can still produce work that is considered beautiful to some people and, like everything else, it has its place.

Whether or not anime is “beautiful” is irrelevant in the argument of whether or not it can be considered to be art. Art is a communication, an expression of the feelings and thoughts that words cannot convey. That isn’t always something that is even comfortable to look at. Art is a necessity of communication for some people, whereas art for art’s sake is all around us. Don’t limit yourself to any genre, discipline or style, there is true art in the most unexpected places, this includes cartoons.

"All the attention is going towards more simplified and cartoonish art, such as anime."
True intelligence is not expressed by the person who makes a simple concept complex by using a string of long words. It is expressed by the person who can express a complex concept simply and eloquently.

Let people enjoy anime for what it is. They aren’t stopping you from enjoying what you consider to be the classics, so either kindly offer to show people something you consider to be "better", or leave them to it, they aren’t hurting anyone.

while it may seem frustrating i fail to understand your hatred. if your work is as good as you say, it will not go unapreciated. anime is a cartoony style but it is a style none the less and can be considered a stream of art. the world of art needs diversity to progress, as an artist you should be able to see this

I really disagree with what your saying here. I admit, I do myself enjoy anime since I grew up on Sailor Moon, and since it has become such a big thing now it's hard to not see from time to time. I have seen some newer and older movies, television shows, and am recently doing a project on Anime and this is how I came about your article. But I don't like how you've said that it's "not an art form" and I REALLY, REALLY disagree with what you mentioned about abstract art.
To begin with, art is about expression. In any way that you feel you can express it. I may only be 15, but in my art studies and my own art expoloration, I've always found the same thing - If you feel it is benifitting you and you like it- then why not do it? Anime is just another way to draw. I agree that it is fairly unimaginative as the same characteristics carry on through each picture, but it is still art. It is still an expression of how the artist draws. Maybe because of the artists LACK of ability, they choose to stick with something they know, something easy, and something they won't screw up. This is still an expression of them, and therefore is still art.
Same with abstact. Personally I love abstract art, what some people don't realise is that a lot of work goes into the good abstract. There is some crap out there, like there is some crap realism and some crap poetry. It happens. But for the people who do put their life into doing abstract art and it turns out really well, and sometimes turn out with hidden meanins etc.
I can see why your frustrated, and I do think you have a right to be, but I don't think you have any kind of right to say that it's crap and that it's not art. If you really want to prove your point, stop saying it's pathetic and crappy and start going out there and showing your work. Maybe go and meet some anime artists, go to a convention, ask people what they like and don't like about.
Yes, some people do live and breathe anime. But some people live and breathe others types of art, some people are obsessed with bands or certain music types. Personally, I think if you love it, show it.
Well, Okay. That's about it for my mini-rant. Hopefully, you read it and feel it's substantial and if at all possibly helpful. Have a good day! ^.^
[xKalathrax]

woo hoo ! Iam glad someone said it. I totaly agree with pretty much everything u said, except for the part about abstract art. All anime people look the same. The only thing they change is their eyes or their clothes, but they are all pretty much the same damn people over and over and over again. If people are going to draw some kind of anime they should at least try to draw something original. It shows how easy it is to draw anime by the way that they can just draw them so fast without really caring about it. So ya, I don't consider it art either.

plan and simple, little kids and stoned teenagers pretty much rule the world, and these little kids and teenagers want cute shit like anime, most of those stoned teenagers and kids grow up to become anime artists and some even otaku (anime fans) reason being is because it brings them joy, happyness, it gives them a false hope, while classical, well it is just reall and to life, they don't want that they want to escape all that and go to their own fantasy world, it is just a way of life you either have to get use to or move to france, not much anime there. but hey don't think of me as a classical fan cause i'm not, I am an otaku myself, but you have to get, not all anime is easy, for example: Samurai Champloo, there is both old east style and new style in that anime, but it is very very good, trust me any of you that hate anime, you will at least appriote(sp) it once you see that show.

one more thing, actually two more: 1. Hayao Miyazaki's films are VERY good examples of real anime, but 2. you shouldn't really say all anime is the same, cause they aren't, yeah these fucking kiddie channels are showing anime, but to tell the truth, those people who make those are actually just like you, u see them "drawing" that stuff but they are just playing around trying to say see how shitty anime is, well it is just wrong, they aren't all the same just a clan of artists have banded together to make people like you pissed with it and people like little kids and stoners to bash each other, to see a great fight you are just playing in their game, but their is no use of fighting, cause all in the end, anime will die and another form of art shall rise, who knows what is next, but maybe if people like all of you who hate anime or hate classical would just stop all your fighting and just join together, everybody will be happy, but HELL, I am in America, home of the fighters, why should i even waste my time explaining something that will just be said as "A waste of your and my time......"

yo i don like anime real porn is beta i dono y u got prob wid it but u cnt fukin change it so u shud get used 2 it

What the fuck are you talking about, we are talking about Anime, not hentai, you dumb shit.

To open, I apologize for any terminology or spelling errors. Sleep deprivation, hooray.

As well, it was difficult to take you seriously with the insulting terms used for the object of your anger. I do happen to be an Anime fan, yes, and your continued insults towards the 'crap' that I happen to enjoy irritated me somewhat. I happen to think most modern art is 'crap', but out of respect, I don't refer to it as such when in discussion with a fan. A modicum of respect towards the potential readers who happen to like this art medium would have been good to see.

While I can understand your frustration, I cannot take it seriously - it smacks of a lack of research and/or understanding, regardless of appreciation. So, I shall address your article piece by piece, and see if I can at least illuminate things from my point of view. After all, what is art if not a portal to the artist's 'certain point of view'? We all see the world differently, and those of you who are fortunate enough to be artistically talented can capture that view with your choice of 'canvas and paint'.

Ah, I ramble. Let us begin.

If we can consider some of our world's 'modern art' the height of artistic pursuit, surely we can consider a well-drawn anime character such as well. The difference, to me, is as vast as it is narrow.

Yes, the proportions are wrong. In cartoons and comics, though, they're rarely 'correct'. And when it comes to Anime, you can't forget that the original source for most of the art is Manga (Japanese Comics). With comics being a predominantly male created and purchased form of art, proportions have a tendency to be exaggerated. Women tend to be 'beautiful', with unrealistic three-size measurements and attitudes, and men tend to be strong figures in physique or temperment, often both. This is a general truth, regardless of the country. There are obvious exceptions to this, of course, but as you seem to be generalizing, so will I.

Your claim of lack of originality distresses me. One could claim the same about almost anything - novels, comics and animation both Western and Eastern, scripts for stage performances or movies. The sad truth is, there just isn't a lot of originality out there, and there probably won't be until the world sees another Renaissance-esque age occur. Until then, nearly everything will be a rehashing of old material, with a new spin.

Calling it simple is an example of overlooking things badly. Some series or movies are far from simple; Ghost In The Shell provides a sprawling, detailed cityscape as the backdrop for well-designed characters, both in their art and in their personality. No, you can't see their muscles straining as they run. No, you can't see the individual beads of sweat running down their faces as they perspire. But some details, regrettably, must be omitted as the general public, those to whom all artists must in some degree cater, care little for certain details. If there is something happening, or something provoking thought or distraction, people care little for the 'small details' that I'm sure you refer to.

Saying "a lot of it is perverted and twisted" is another generalization. An intelligent argument would not generalize. Yes, there is a decent amount of 'Ecchi' material in the Anime world, but there are also series and movies that are nothing of the kind. Again, GITS breaks this stereotype that you have lain forth. While there is nudity, it is far from perverse in nature, but more incidental. While there is violence, it is fairly far from mindless and vulgar, with each scene having a reason to be there, one which is explained either beforehand or afterwards. The majority of the movie is intended to be philosophical and thought-provoking in nature. Many other Anime projects strive for this as well. There are genres to Anime, much as there are to American movies.

Now, as an Anime fan, I can honestly say that I disagree with your comment on the disregarding of classical art forms, at least on my behalf. I find the true classics breathtakingly beautiful, and intense in the emotions they convey. (Just...don't ask me to remember names. I can't remember artists for Anime either, so it's not a matter of disregarding, it's a matter of being forgetful.)

Ultimately, I agree with some of what you're saying...but if you're going to state that something is 'not art' because of it's level of simplicity, I urge you to look again. It's not all as simple as you seem to think. Move beyond the basic 'Children's Programming' styles into the more mature oriented programs, and you'll find your generalizations melting in the face of something different.

Perhaps, something you might consider artistic.

I don't know why people bash anime for. It IS a form of art. Just look at it this way, everything is art. It all depends on your point of view. Everyone has their own opinion, like I hate american cartoons because of the stupidity. I like anime because it's something else. The thing about anime is they have their own unique personality. It fits with the character. Not all anime is the same. I hate some animes because of certain things about it. It is true that a lot of anime DO NOT have anything perverted in it. People just think that because they have seen the wron kind of anime. Tch, seriously though. It PISSES me off that people bash on somehting they dont know. They can call anything art. One thing about this country is that it is racist toward things that they were not exposed to before. They have nothing better to do, and feel as though they must bash on something for their own time wasting. No one has the right to call any from of art trash. those who have nothing better to say should just keep their mouths shut. I HATE people who just say they dislike it and have to say something bad about anime. It's all imagination. It's one piece of crap the U.S. does not have. People want to escape reality. Reality is not alwayz the best option cuz ITZ BORING. We have lives too. We live it differently. Thatz all

i'm 21,i'm a girl and i watch anime and i absolutely adore cartoons old and new,and you know what i dont care.so i'm not that big on anime i've lately been watching avatar,which i think is a great show.To me,just like this previous comment,anything can be art.I also think that a cartoonist needs to have a very open mind,because if you trying to create a show or something of the sort,you have to be ... cREATIVe ... and be able to come up with dialouge not just beautiful or detailed imagery.

-dirt dobbler

Anime is better. Face it. What ur saying is like trying to convince teens to use record players instead of ipods. Your art style is *DUN DUN DUN* outdated. As for myself, i draw anime...well, hentai but its the same thing.