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Atheism to me just seems lazy
Is it just me or does atheism just seem like a lazy way out of the whole religious part of life and culture?
The atheists I meet typically can only present very weak reasons for why they don't think God exists. Then on top of that most of the ones who will readily identify as atheistic seem to either just want attention (Ooh, look at me! I'm different!) or have some sort of near-violent vendetta against all things religious. It's weird.
Going to church is boring and/or inconvenient because sleeping in is more fun! But the commandments are inconvenient since I want to steal music and have sex! Praying is inconvenient because I don't seem get what I want! Seeing a pattern? So have I.
I've seen one exception so far where an atheist I met just seemed to be a critical thinker and had reached that conclusion after lots of debate. These people I can respect. I may disagree with their conclusions, but at least they don't have some mission to make life miserable for those who do have beliefs and don't seem to just be covering for a sense of apathy to the whole subject. It seems to me that many of these people who have weak reasoning have fooled themselves into really believing their own crap. Then again, I guess that's fairly common in life.
The atheists I meet typically can only present very weak reasons for why they don't think God exists. Then on top of that most of the ones who will readily identify as atheistic seem to either just want attention (Ooh, look at me! I'm different!) or have some sort of near-violent vendetta against all things religious. It's weird.
Going to church is boring and/or inconvenient because sleeping in is more fun! But the commandments are inconvenient since I want to steal music and have sex! Praying is inconvenient because I don't seem get what I want! Seeing a pattern? So have I.
I've seen one exception so far where an atheist I met just seemed to be a critical thinker and had reached that conclusion after lots of debate. These people I can respect. I may disagree with their conclusions, but at least they don't have some mission to make life miserable for those who do have beliefs and don't seem to just be covering for a sense of apathy to the whole subject. It seems to me that many of these people who have weak reasoning have fooled themselves into really believing their own crap. Then again, I guess that's fairly common in life.
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i can't even express how stupid you are so i'm just going to leave it at that
"The atheists I meet typically can only present very weak reasons for why they don't think God exists."
Wow. Lets review some facts on why you believe in god.
1. A lot of people told you there is a god.
2. You read in a book that there is a god.
If you take away those 2 things you would not believe in god.
So your reasons for believing in god are weak and stupid.
The irony in your comment is amazing.
If there wasn't religion then the world would be a bigger mess than it already is...although religion has also caused wars like the Crusades.
What proof is there that God exists though? Some people might view The Bible as a fairy-tale written by a group who was considered then a genius even though if they were placed in todays society they would equal the education and intelligence of a third-grader.
That thing where the river turned red was caused by iron rusting or something and then it bubbled op out of a lake and released a low lying gas which killed all the egyptian first-borns because they were given a special bed close to the ground.
This was figured out when in 1978 a similar thing happened and killed a whole village of neiggers.
if you need a religion to tell you what right and wrong is than your a fucking pathetic human being and fuck you
but i agree with the rest of your comment, i believe humans have become a LOT more intelligent even in just the past few hundred years
it's so apparent that there is a huge gap in intelligence between people that were born over 50 years ago and people that have been born within the past 20 years
old people are incredibly stupid most of them don't even know how to use a computer, while younger people are much more intelligent
my theory is that it has to do with a humans upbringing, there is just more stuff to stimulate a growing mind these days which makes us more intelligent
and this also goes along with your theory about how a genius in biblical times would have the same intelligence of a third grader today
/end angry rant
Lift big heavy porno mags
scrolling our mouse all day over porn
wanking
going out in the streets and walking around to perv
Lifting all those skirts
Removing bras and panties
fibgering
licking
fucking
And you think were lazy Id like to see any of you bible thumpers try bet you cant
"and this also goes along with your theory about how a genius in biblical times would have the same intelligence of a third grader today"
Adam named all the animals, and David wrote Psalms possible, they formed language, and some form of writing. People in biblical times built tall idols, statues, buildings, and other mass structures and didn't have anything near what we have to build them. I believe the intelligence has basically stayed the same.
I disagree with you 100 percent I'm sorry to say I know I was raised differently from most people my age, but God have mercy on all these parents who didn't teach their children to RESPECT THEIR ELDERS!!! Older people have wisdom, and can give instruction, but kids today choose to disagree with older people, and have been taught to QUESTION AUTHORITY. I have sometimes caught myself thinking how stupid this old person is, but then I think well maybe they have been stupid all their life.
It is in our nature to reject God, and religious people have their doubts too and switch into atheists. I don't think atheists are lazy I do however believe it is another form of organized religion, because atheists do believe atheism is the one true way, and anbody elso who doesn't follow them is "stupid". Sounds a lot like religion to me.
He said:
"Then on top of that most of the ones who will readily identify as atheistic seem to either just want attention (Ooh, look at me! I'm different!) or have some sort of near-violent vendetta against all things religious."
Why is it impossible that we could have done that over the last 3000-5000 years?
wasn't there a song like that?
one sermon in particular concerned the "pagan" holiday of halloween. the father said that it was alright for devout catholics to participate and wear costumes because this was actually mocking and making fun of the "backward beliefs " of the druids.
i wonder how he'd have felt if someone dressed as a nun to make fun of the backward beliefs of catholicism. also, i thought the druids at least had an excuse for their beliefs, being as they lived in the 11th century. so what excuse did the good father have for his beliefs??
I left the church and never went back.
Since the dawn of time people have always believed there is something out there that created them, I think atheism is a form of rebellion, but who am I to judge?
you should study what evolution theory actually says before you argue about it. it doesn't say what you are PRESUMING it does.
I grew up in a community where the people were ignorant little folks who thought the whole world was about the 5 mile radius area they inhabited. It took me years to overcome the "common sense" nonsense they all believed in.
transcend your people, and the locality you grew up in. thats the challenge you face.
Someone who is an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of God, which is they're right! Just like you have the right to believe in God. Just because someone doesn't believe in the existence of God doesn't make them lazy.
You have no way of proving that there is a God or that one exists... Prove it!
It's about your own personal beliefs and people have the right to believe what they want whether they choose to believe in the existance of a god or not!
Just because some people don't attend church, it doesn't mean they don't believe in god! But I do agree that sleeping is much more fun than church! Plus there are better things I can do with my time and life rather than spending it listening to people preach about God.
Most religions teach you to objectify and criticize people who are not in the same religion. That divides us as humanity and weakens us as a whole.
Religion is bad. Spirituality is good.
Atheist simply do not practice a religion.
Hence A-theist...
Theism is the study of religion. but I am sure you know that already...
So don't make such ignorant generalized statements. Thanks.
Also, I do not know any amoral atheists. You don't need the ten commandments to know what is right and wrong. I'm certain such people exist, but they're on the same level as the KKK and Al Qaeda.
I prefer to live and let live, but when people start calling others bad to justify themselves, I get pretty angry. If I were not angry, I'd probably have the sense to not even bother posting here. Only idiots take these things seriously, and the person who wrote the "question" is probably trolling anyway. At least I hope he/she is a troll, because those really are some exceedingly dumb and ignorant things to say.
u need to open ur fucking mind just bcuz sum1 doesnt share the same views as u does not make them lazy. u no what it makes them? a threat to ur religion bcuz u classify that way. CHristians think that they are rite and ne1 who doesnt agree is misguided and going to hell but atheists just dont belive in god bcuz u cant prove that god exists except by word of mouth. by being atheist ur not neccesarily saying christians are dumb ur saying that u just dont agree with the christian way of life.
"It seems to me that many of these people who have weak reasoning have fooled themselves into really believing their own crap."
uhhh that sounds exactly like what ur doing u hypocritical bitch. u just need a crutch in society to lean on because u cant handle the idea of not having ur own fucking god and just dying, not going to fucking paradise. Y the fuck would anyone NEED god or religion in their life? do what u like but dont say its necessary and anyone who doesnt have it is a dumb lazy asshole. U ignorant small minded hypocrital whiny religious fanatic.
He just cotradicts himself basicly.
Agnostics are a different breed, as they are a- gnostic, a- meaning non, and gnostic meaning pertaining to knowledge. They don't have a belief system at all. It's like Socretes said; and I will paraphrase here: The only thing I know is that I know nothing. True agnostics claim to have no knowledge, including not knowing whether they know the truth of anything. It is the ultimate form of skepticism, and its a hell of a lot more work than atheism or religion.
Bottom line, you can't make somebody believe. If I told you that you were lazy because you didn't believe in the tooth fairy, would you take the same stance you are now. There is no concrete rational evidence of the existence of a God, and in-fact, using human logic, an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God can be entirely ruled out.
For example: If God is all powerful (omnipotent) can he create a boulder so heavy even he cannot lift it? If he can, then he isn't omnipotent, if he can't then he isn't omnipotent. Damned if he can, damned if he can't.
Another example: If god is omnipotent (all powerful) and omnibenevolent (all-loving) why do humans suffer at the hands of other humans? If you say its because they have free will, why can't God give all humans free will and still have them all choose to be good people? if he can't then he isn't omnipotent.
That is why atheists don't believe. They don't use faith as a guide, they use logic. Plain old earthly human logic.
some one here posted somethign saying: religion = bad, spirituality = good
i think organized religion = bad, spirituality = good is a bit more accurate. For example, you can follow what the bible says and not belong to any denomination (that would be being religious) and through that you could be being spiritual.
about me? i consider myself deist and beleive in predestination.... which i can see as being the easy/lazy way out of having to be either spiritual or religious in my own manner.
The Bible was created because nobody had/has any idea how the earth was created, they were scared of death and needed to create a Heaven, and to control people out of fear.
I find it amusing you say people who disbelieve in a God cant argue correctly, when a Christian on being questioned as to why they believe in a God will tap their chest and say 'I have faith'.
I myself can point out plenty of errors in the Bible, which would shatter your faith since the Bible is the word of God and God doesn't make mistakes.
Also, it isnt lazy to think things through and realize that the Bible is a tonne of shit. It's lazy to believe everything you're told because you don't have the energy to think for yourself.
Besides, the rule theory doesn't work, people break those rules all the time. 'thou shalt not kill'. But people who believe in God kill all the time because they think they are following God's orders.
Fish, cannibalistic child killer says that he 'knows what he was doing wasn't wrong because an angel never stopped him'.
And there you have it.
By now, you should be seriously considering your faith, but you won't, because even though all the facts are here, curb stomping your fairy-tale, you decide that even though nothing but a book of lies which is s'posed to be created by an all knowing being who never makes mistakes but holds many contradictions, supports your faith, that you still 'know what he did, he did'.
But remember, you are not God. If you are as allknowing as he is, you KNOW what he did, he did, then you are just as Godly as he, and he just as man as you, and not divine at all.
So, can you argue?
Where is your "GOD" when a person is suffering death?
Where is your "GOD" when a 2 year old dies of a birth disorder?
Where is your "GOD" when 10 million people were slaughtered during World War II?
Where is your "GOD" when wars are declared?
Where is your "GOD" when our world suffers in poverty, racism, global warming, starvation, murders, robberies,etc...
What I'm trying to say is, atheists have their reasons for not believing, and religious people have theirs for believing its not because they are lazy.
Now what I think is lazy is dislexia, (dunno spelling) i mean come on, "I can't read this cuz I'm dislexic" but that could just be the environment i live with in school.
Life is your test. Just like at school you're free to perform to any level. You can ace it or bomb it, and either way you'll receive your just reward. That's where the direct interaction begins. You aren't going to experience it during your time here on Earth.
So where is God? He's where he always has been. The fact that he isn't Santa Claus and passing out goodies constantly doesn't preclude the possibility of his existence.
Again, I want to point out that I don't think all atheists are lazy. As I even exemplified in my original post, I recognize that some arrive to that conclusion through logic and reason--it makes the most sense to them. (Though let's make no mistake: I believe that they are wrong.) It just seems like a very large percentage of them aren't such critical thinkers and would rather just take a lazy way out of religion.
But I do have two questions about God's existance.
Do you believe in God?
Do you believe in Unicorns?
There is no proof for either, so if you believe in God, you MUST believe in Unicorns, vice-versa.
LAZINESS IS A VERY GOOD THING, IT'S WHAT MAKES LIFE EASIER FOR OTHERWISE UNHAPPY PEOPLE.
CHRISTIANITY IS A BAD THING, IT'S WHAT MAKES LIFE TEDIOUS AND FAKE FOR NAIVE AND OTHERWISE VULNERABLE PEOPLE.
Atheists are just as capable of living moral lives as any religious people, nor do atheists need the threat of eternal damnation to do so!
It seems to me that you are judging EVERY atheism out there. And that's just plain mean.
Of course I've read your text about that ONE atheism you think is OK. But it still means you are looking at us atheism with your bad eye.
Try to relax and stop hating on people you don't even know. I'm an atheism, and I do think I have my clear reasons to be one, NOT because I'm lazy and don't want to go to church. Trust me. Stop your hating and you'll get much happier, even if you're atheism or religious.
Peace ^^
"I've seen one exception so far where an atheist I met just seemed to be a critical thinker and had reached that conclusion after lots of debate. These people I can respect. I may disagree with their conclusions, but..."
I've met one exception personally and acknowledge that there are others. I can respect atheists that have come to that way of thinking by logic and reasoning even if I disagree with their conclusion. However, my gripe is that a LOT of atheists just seem to take the lazy way out of religion by pretending it doesn't exist. That's my gripe. I don't -hate- anyone. =/
This is how evolution works, some people in here seem to be going off the misconception that all creatures strive to become human and are evolving to that point.
The only reason any lifeform is here is simply because it worked, it didn't die and went on to breed, the saying 'Survial of the Fittest' comes to mind. Evolution is simply random mutations which may increase an animals chance of living long enough to breed.
I would hope that anyone should be able to realise that there is no god through looking at the facts for themselves as opposed to going with what their parents went with, it's not a football team.
I question what you have said about einstein, what was the point of this experiment? what were the results?
When I die, if there is a heaven, i know I will be going there because in my life I have helped others, I have put others first, and I have made an effort to not harm anyone in any way-whether it be physically or emotionally. However, when I HAVE, I try to make up for it. I'm not going to waste my life hoping I picked the right religion. Instead I know I'll die a happy, good person, let God, or whoever do with me as he she or it pleases.
if you did - AWESOME.
"i mean, how can you not believe in god, i mean, why?!"
"answer me this, do you believe in unicorns?"
"no.."
"why no?"
"because they're a myth and no one has ever seen one"
"EXACTLY."
It is brainwashing though and you can't even acknowledge that. The reason you have this faith is because someone told you about these things. Now I don't argue that faith is a natural human characteristic but if you hadn't been brainwashed you would have faith in something different(if you had faith at all).
Faith is a nice way for naive people to accept things that have no proof.
Atheism isn't about being lazy. I actually feel that most people who are religious are the lazy ones. They accept what has been told to them without a hint of independent thought. Most don't read their religious books but still claim to be of that religion because it is convenient.
I, as an atheist, came to my conclusion by myself without someone telling me what to think. I didn't have my parents shoving religion down my throat even though they themselves are catholic. I was never baptized.
I went to church several times of my own accord because I was curious and gave it a chance. I read the bible(I will admit not all of it) and also atheist literature. I once asked my friends dad when I was a young teen if he could teach me about his Christian beliefs. He brought out his bible and went over his beliefs with me. Another friends used to be forced to read the bible with his mom on some days and I would ask to join. This all on my own without any pressure at all from my parents or society.
The only logical choice is that there is no god. Religion has been used as something to dominate others with for thousands of years.
The thought of a god is definitely consoling for people that need help to get through life but that doesn't make god real.
"The reason you have this faith is because someone told you about these things."
Ok, firstly dont tell me why I have faith because you do not KNOW me now if you wanted to know why I have faith all you had to do was ask. I did not always have faith in God at a point in my life I was very detached from my religion. I did not understand this "faith" that others around me were feeling. But I kept at it and I was on a mission to understand because something in me told me that this "stuff" I was learning was good. In highschool I began going to Bible study with my friend Brenda were I began to have some of my questions answered and all the missing pieces in my mind were filled in. Not because I was "brainwashed" (Anybody that know me knows I am not a gullable person I am a thinker)One day at bible study I felt this feeling come over me as we were praying I cant explain the feeling but it filled me and my hands began to tremble and I felt weak Christians call it the Holy Spirit.It was a strong feeling of Love and Faith. Undescribable. The Lord touched my heart that day.
Faith is not an act of brainwashing its a VERY private thing that is between YOU and God. U can go to Chatholic school and church all your life and not have faith. Which I did until the day I believe I was saved.
"Atheism isn't about being lazy. I actually feel that most people who are religious are the lazy ones."
Who am I to judge you and say that you are lazy I do not know you. Your struggles are your strugles just as my struggles are mine.
"I, as an atheist, came to my conclusion by myself without someone telling me what to think. I didn't have my parents shoving religion down my throat even though they themselves are catholic."
I feel your need to be an individual.I myself am a individual not because I had to fight for it but because that is who I am we were all created different and for different purposes. And I can honestly tell you that in no way shape or form was Christianity shoved down my throat or anyone that I knows throat. You can force someone to go to church but you cannot force someone to believe. It is a personal decision.Do you NEED to to go to church to be a god Christian? No. Your relationship with God is personal. However, I honestly feel like going to church is good for my spirit. When Im down its a pick me up. Whatever is on my mind the pastor speaks about and if its not I know that Word was for someone else and I am still grateful to be there to praise God.
"I read the bible(I will admit not all of it) and also atheist literature."
Are you sure you were trying to believe or were you trying to jsutify your disbeliefs? Just like an arguement if your upset(not saying your upset just an example) you will not listen and try to understand what the other person is saying instead you will listen for ways to refute what the other person is saying. Kind of like a debate. How were you reading the bible? Was it with an eyebrow up?
If you strove for faith and look for it you will find it. Just as I did for a loooong loooong time. Try to be more open-minded. When the time is right faith will come. Let him (God) know that you want it. There is no way you can wake up one day and automatically beieve in God.
"The thought of a god is definitely consoling for people that need help to get through life but that doesn't make god real."
God is sooo real God is inside of all of us even you, God is Love. Dont deny that God is there. He pulled you through your rough times and consoled you when you were down. To deny God is to deny a part of yourself. Try to be more open.
"The only logical choice is that there is no god. Religion has been used as something to dominate others with for thousands of years."
Logic. What is Logic Logic is not all its cracked up to be thousands of years ago before there was science and "logic" before humans could "prove" anything there was God. And he is still here today.
Logic-the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
If you can see something does that mean it does not exist. We cannot see the wind but we can FEEL it. We cannot SEE God but we can FEEL God in our Hearts.
-Any athiest if free tom answer the question
ummm...fucking science?
Would you goto miley cyrus' concert if you didn't favor her music?
Show me the proof that your god exists.
About what the creator of this topic said:
I don't think most atheists or agnostic people are how they are because they are lazy to go to Church. Yet, a muslim could say you're lazy because instead of going once per week (or whatever), you don't go 5 times a day!?!.
I could easily argue that the author'scomment, even though it was about 3 paragraphs long, it basically said nothing in order to prove that people are lazy. It mostly shown that s/he is lazy him/herself for his/her lack of reasoning. An agnostic person or atheist could easily argue also that the author is believing his/her own crap, and then someone from another religion would argue that the author is believing in the wrong crap, and so on.
I do believe that there might be something that happened to created us or nothing(?). One reason is that, even though my knowledge of physics is limited, I have heard that the Universe is expanded, and that since the Universe is mostly ''nothing'' beside stars, planets,etc...into ''what'' is it expanding?
Though, I do not accept any religions, as most of their image of God seems illogical nor realistic. How God could be at our image since he's all powerful, omniscient and so on? What would happen if there would be life on another planet which would be much more advanced than us and would look totally different than us? Since ''God'' would have created this universe, he would therefore have created them also, no? Then since how ahead in technology they would be, and might look totally different than us, would that mean then that ''God'' gave them an unfair advantage by being ''starting'' their species before we did and thus being able to wipe us off the map if they decide so? Would then that mean that ''God'' might be closer to their image instead of us? I know what I just said is farfetched, but it's a possibility...The biggest question that cannot be answered is: If scientists cannot answer what is beyong the Universe, and that religious people answer: ''it's God, gods, or whatever it might be'', then how that ''creature'' came into being itself. It's as pointless as instead of writing 1 = 1, you do 1 = 100-99. From what it seems to me, the Universe works pretty much straightforwardly and in a as simple way as possible.
I believe religions did good things in other civilize this world in order to make it less ''rules of nature'' and acted as a ''crutch''. The problem now, so it seems, is that we, as a specie, don't really need these religions as it seems to create more violence and wars. It seems to be used as a tool to gather people's attention and manipulate them into doing and believing what the leader says in order to be a good practician of that said religion. You can look at the map of who voted for Bush and how religious are the states which have elected him. He often talked about ''God'' being on their side and fighting for the will of ''God'' and so on. (Sorry I cannot write more about it as I don't feel like searching what he said). And how some muslum leaders have cried for the Jihad and fight for Allah in the war that started years ago...My point is, leaders often use religions in order to gain people's approval and have fighters in order to go along their will, and it might be only later that you find that, in a way, it was for their own benefit, either directly or indirectly. I do not wish to be manipulated by leaders because of my beliefs. And I would welcome everyone to have an ''alarm bell'' ringing whenever anyone states: ''if you want to be model of a practician of that said religion, or if you don't want to be punished by ''XYZ God'' you will do this. Unfortunately, from my own experience with people people arguing that ''XYZ action'' is sin because supposedly ''XYZ God'' said so through ''XYZ person'', they seem to me pretty simple minded. You'll never hear an atheist or agnostic person say: ''Well if you're truly an atheist, you will do this or go to war for our ''cause''.'' And therefore, that seemed to me, the most ''correct''.
Stating that religions aren't a brainwash, is not correct in my opinion. Because if you take children who have never heard of religions and cults, but only teach them good and bad with logical reasons, it would be surprising that most of them would simply think about the concept of ''God''. So therefore, it's us, adults, who bring them into thinking about it and make some of them believe in it. If brought young enough, you can bring up a child to believe whatever you want him or her to believe. So therefore, yes it is brainwashing.
In my opinion, being an atheist or agnostic, is to most believers as bad as being part of any other religion than their own. So let's say one religion would be the correct one, would that said ''God'', once judgement day would (supposedly) arrive: ''I'm sorry, you didn't choose the right religion, even if you were brought up in a different culture which they believed in ''XYZ religion'' and I made you born there, it's not my problem but yours, you should have known better. So have a nice eternal journey. Good bye.'' That's totally stupid. How many religions and cults there is, how many cultures....so much choice and so easy to be wrong.
About bring your religion to the country you're emigrating. To me, even simply visiting my neighbour, I would find it very unrespectful from me to impose my way into his/her/their home, and therefore why do they impose their ways on our land? Keep your religion to your home, I don't care, but respect me/my/our land enough to keep it to your home (I don't mean home country but your house if you live in another country) and respect your host ways, if you don't like it, stay in your home country.
If someone needs a religion in order to know what's good and bad, and it makes that person be a better one, so be it, I have no problem with it. I don't care. But unfortunately, most believers I met, simply don't accept when others might not believe in the same beliefs as themselves or not believe at all, and this topic is the simple proof about it.
Does the author is a better person because s/he blamed non-believers for not believing? In my opinion no. A good believe would just do his way and be peaceful about it. That's what defines a believer, in my opinion.
As long as it doesn't hurt anyone or anything, believe whatever you want. I simply don't care.
If you honestly think anyone can simply stop believeing in something at will, rather that doing so after ages of thinking, then YOU'RE the one who doesn't think about stuff much.
Only the ignorant posess the luxury of believeing what they want to believe.
Also, I'd like to think if there was a god, he wouldn't allow people like you.
Also, In this land that was established for religious freedom, I don't get why everyone is so intolerant.
There's all the science that's been too close to being proved that anyone cares about the 1% chance of it being fake. There's the big bang, there's evolution. There's all that stuff. Athiesm is probably deeper than religion, anyway.
i like to believe in things that have facts behind them to prove the reality of things
ike heaven and hell....wtf like
if you gotta die to go to heaven or hell...how would anyone know about them? explain that with your precious religion
I am very much a Christian, I go to church once or twice a week and run the youth group there. Whilst I agree that some people might not want to follow the same way of life as me because they want to have sex, swear, get drunk etc some people might simply not believe. A Buddist might say that a Christian is lazy as they have not studied Buddist religious works.
but like you said "It seems to me that many of these people who have weak reasoning have fooled themselves into really believing their own crap."
isn't that pretty much Christianity.
You're ignorant. Atheism is the logical response to mythology.
You're not getting many thumbs up with your ignorant assumptions.
Time to change your screen name and start over with more logical statements and pretend you never typed this.
Don't you find it a bit ridiculous that everyone is fighting over how ignorant and unenlightened the other side is by using statements that are ignorant and unenlightened?
If you want you worship Jesus Christ, go ahead. If you think Buddah was God, who is anyone to detest that? If you think that God is a crock of shit, that's just how you feel.
Of course anyone can and will have opinions about religion, but don't try to force someone into following someone that they don't click with. There's as many ways to get to god as there are souls, and I don't see god as a set of rules. I see god as hope and love, something to believe in that is greater than you are.
Don't bash someone just because your idea of god looked different, the whole message is love and acceptance and a lot of the "mainstream" religions today focus on who's right when it shouldn't be a competition. Be happy for someone who has found something they feel makes them important, but in return don't shove your morals down a persons throat, it's a lost cause and just gets people upset.
There is a lot of ignorance being put forth in this thread. Only a few in opposition to religion have even bothered to provide any degree of support to their views. I can at least respect the ones who have even if I disagree with their ultimate conclusion.
The ones like you, however, are just shouting in the darkness, providing nothing of substance. You just insult and whine but do nothing to substantiate your view. You are a good example of the kind of atheist I originally complained about--reflexively aggressive, angry, and unwilling to quietly accept that others have faith in something which you do not.
In response to anyone that says this guy is stupid: Re-evaluate how much you thought about your own position before you accuse of others of not thinking much about theirs.
In response to those would be bible-thumpers: Don't post arguments that tend to favor religiosity as you are making it harder for the rest of us to be spiritual in our own ways. The atheists have no agenda...YOU do. STOP. There are places to promote religion and a public forum is NOT one of them.
On your point about religion being brain washing and in response to EVERYONE'S claims about logic:
In Kant's work, written about 230 to 220 years ago, Kant provides a PROOF of morality with G-d as a necessary incentive for morality. It is not that Kant is the be all end all of "rightness." The point is, rather, that there have been many "logical" arguments for G-d's existence...some even stronger than this. You are just wrong to claim that any inclusion of G-d is mere brain-washing. I'm sure there is a lot of the brain-washing you speak of, but that does not mean that all belief in G-d is brain washing.
Another example would be the teleological proof for G-d (offered years before Kant):
Everything in the universe has a purpose, like a clock or a planet or a sun, etc. That these all work together suggests that the entire universe is like a clock (with many useful parts all doing their thing to affect some unified outcome). Anything that has a purpose MUST have been designed. The universe has the properties of this unified purpose (like a clock). (a necessary implied assumption: G-d, if he exists, displays human properties so much that he is like us enough to have the quality of being a designer)Therefore there must be a designer and this designer must be G-d.
There is also the cosmological proof of G-d and there are several proposed, present-day 'proofs' of G-d's existence.
All these tend to show is that logic is NOT out of the mix where G-d comes in...
If you object to this, then consider for a second the idea that G-d does NOT exist. Have you any proof of that? There are in fact many proofs of that, but logic is fairly useless at deriving truth.
This problem of finding truth when logic fails us has been a problem since Socrates, or even before.
That anyone ON HERE thinks they can say anything is true is nothing but complete hilarity to me.
This is why subjectivism is the way to go. Everyone's reality is theirs to do with as they please. In other words, let people believe in whatever they want. What do you care, as long as you can still be you at the end of the day? I say this with love: If being you entails changing other people, then you should seriously re-evaluate your life.
As a Jew, we have no real concept of hell...no eternal fire...no eternal damnation. You are responsible for what you do in this life and you will be rewarded or punished according the aforementioned determined causes. You don't need to believe in G-d to believe this...so MisterMo, you are right in this. But logic can still lead us to G-d, though it NEED NOT.
All of you are in need of serious intellectualization. The anti-intellectual western attitude is what leads to ignorant forums like this. I'm sorry to insult, but you are all so blandly covering the topic. I guess the nice way to say this is read a book.
Your opinions are by far the most uneducated. People are "smarter" now than they were several years ago?! Are you really that daft?
Do some research and you'll find that our brains have had this capacity for at least all of recorded human history...and we can infer, from archeological finds, that our entire existence, as this particular species of the genus homo, probably spans at least 10,000 or even the 100,000 years before that.
Like I said, you all need to pick up a book and read it. Grow up America.
Your logic: believing in G-d, despite the lack of proof for Him is analagous and CONGRUENT with belief in unicorns despite lack of proof for their existence.
So according to this logic if you believe in anything at all that can't be proven, then you must believe in all things that can't be proven. This is just does NOT follow.
Let's assume for a second that you are right, then if I believe that a chair exists, I must believe that G-d exists. Can you prove to me the existence of the chair? No...sorry: pointing to a chair and saying "see, a chair exists" is NOT proof...it is merely a show of your ability to perceive what some would call the world of appearance. I'm sure you are one of those people (I am) that liked the Matrix or the Thirteenth floor. These movies illustrate the very "world of appearance" concept I am speaking of. What these showed is that mere cognizance of this "reality" does not make it real. You should think about reading some basic logic books and you will find that the use of the word logic to justify just anything that makes sense to YOU is infelicitous. (the whole point of writing that word is to force you to look it up...then I will have won and you will have hopefully opened a book or at least looked on a good, educated website for the term)
and i think..why couldnt there be?
ok so for those who dont believe in religion. cool whatever but if there does turn out to be a god your going to hell. bad deal. if there isnt whatever u won the debate but when you die nothing happens so wasnt worth arguing was it
for those that do. if there is a god good your going to heaven. if not. well when u die there will be nothing and hey u tried.
i prefer to belive in mother nature.
If it turns out the Big G does exist then screw me sideways. Cool.... Hehe
I personally don't feel that most atheists are as you describe. I don't think they get into it out of laziness; rather, I think they go to church with their parents a while and listen to what the priest has to say, and find that they can't believe in it or accept it. That's how it was with me. I tried going to church - I went for years and stopped, then gave it another try, but I just could not say I accepted it without being a liar. I don't believe that faith is a choice when it comes to this. It's like if someone pointed to a blue circle and told you it's red, and you had to truly believe it or you'd die. No matter how hard you wanted to, you couldn't actually make yourself mentally go, "okay, yeah, that's pretty red". I don't think you can make yourself want to tell yourself that, either. Bottom line: religion just doesn't work for some people, but it's true that some people avoid it for other reasons entirely (the 'wrong' ones).
Atheism isn't lazyness, it is more common knowledge as far as I see it. Sure, some people may be lazy but I have thought far more about religion and making sure I am happy with my choice to drop out of religious affairs. I had to think long and hard, far longer than Christians I know do, about religion and I came to my conclusion after hours upon hours of doing research to find if god exist (I've yet to find any although I still look to this day.) and I have yet to find any proof.
If this is the part where you start preaching Faith and so on, BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS. Faith solves nothing and means nothing besides a copout. We have all seen a "tv" horror ghost hunter show at least a little bit and it is funny how everyone thinks if something breaks down, its a ghost. No, that is a machine malfunction or a "add on" to the show.
That crap is Psudo-Science and to explain. Just because something happens, don't just assume it is fact, find ways of backing up what you find and test what you find. That is real science.
Faith is a cop out answer to a complex question and I badly would love and wish that one day I could get my "faith" back. But as a man of science and one who is crippled while seeing fuckholes walk around doing nothing with their lives and don't earn the gift of health they HAVE FOR FREE. It is hard to hold onto faith.
My fiance is Catholic and I am happy for her and do not want to take that away from her, unfortunately, I will go with her and TRY to share her faith but at the end of the day, I don't.
I need proof and I tear apart life, the internet, and society's line of thinking to find it and this part still elludes me.
I could go on and on, that is the novelist inside me screaming at me to finish my book. However, I proved my point that athiest are not lazy, it is the Christians who are the laziest of the set. They can just have faith and assume that everything works out in the end and don't need to really take responsibility in finding out WHY things are they way they are. Athiest tear apart everything and work harder to figure this or that because we in general demand a "WHY" instead of the cop out answer "It just is or does."