I hate christians

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231 Comments

just to finish making your point... what do you believe in??

you are a twisted mofo plz die

bah humbug

@ Galeni: What do I believe in? Hmmm.. how about.. reality?

@ Tim Swain: OMGZ! waaat? You have outwitted me with your baseless accusation!!!

what is reallity for you? what is something normal to belive in?? explain yourself.

yeah you must be quite stupid to believe that bible crap.
everybody with half a brain or more knows that.

Galeni, I don't have to explain myself to you.

You're not a real christian, anyhow. You date a lesbian. No TRUE christian would do such a thing.

If somebody had told me someone did that today, obviously there would be heaps of followers around this person to see if they were sent from the real deal. I would need to see it to believe it, 'cause there is a lot of phonies out there. And you forget to mention that Moses had the power of God with him. You are an idiot

nice try, better luck next time

I think you'll find all religions believe in something different, including atheism; Which I assume you are a part of.

Atheists believe the world was created from a big explosion. Then Life just appeared from this explosion. Over years we just kept changing until we got to how we are today. What makes that more crazier than the other religious beliefs?

The truth is we will NEVER know how the world was created; everything is theory. Whether it was made by a superior form, or it was created by accident, or maybe not one of the human theories have even came close to the truth. The only people who are ignorant in this scenario are the people who say any idea is out of the question.

Bob,
judging from the timescales the sun works in, and in the certainty it has been shining for immense amounts of time.
Including all the fossil records we find all over the planet, showing the evolution of species, it is impossible to deny that life on planet Earth has been evolving for hundreds of millions of years.

Knowing so, and then picking up a book which claims the opposite(the bible),
makes every intelligent person take the idea of the book out of the question.

Thats not due to ignorance but to intelligence and knowledge.

Not to mention that this book doesnt really back its claim of this with anything whatsoever.

The major reason people tried to believe this was its threat "if you dont believe this crap then youll burn in hell forever".
Which off course was a message that was ment to come from a "good" god.
How dumb is that?

Come on all ya christians... defend your faith!

I actually completely agree with Bob. No one really knows the truth, and even though faith is relevent, we still can't prove which religion is the "true" one.

Mimir2, arguing with devout Christians - that their religion is fake - is pointless. Same as trying to force your beliefs onto someone else. Instead, we should be trying to put our beliefs aside and attempt to unite as a community, society and world.

Off course we know that god did not just put Adam and Eve on the ground out of nowhere fully created.

We do know that.

All the fossil records prove it, and so does the age of the sun and the information we pass down to our children and how we are ripe to evolve and are doing so as we have different characteristics and they are inherited down to our children. Meaning the characterstics of us as a species is changing infront of our very eyes. And judgingt from the age of this world there is room for virtually infinite evolution, both in our past and into our future.

But off course if you just say "No".
Then there wont be much in the way of discussion, but thats not because of lack of evidence or ability to rule out suggestions how everything came about but rather due to unwillingness to discuss the issue and use our god given brains.

agreed. should be more normal

Mimir2, you said: "and in the certainty it has been shining for immense amounts of time."

Care to prove this? All your doing is following things other people have said. You have absolutly no proof of any of this; the same way no one can prove Christianity or other religions are true. As far as you know the world isn't even round. Have you ever been into space and looked down on it for yourself or have you only seen images that were given to you by others.

You cant say "Thats not due to ignorance but to intelligence and knowledge" because none of this knowledge is your knowledge, it's just what you have chosen to believe because others gave you the theories.

The sun is slowly converting its hydrogen into helium.
It will take 4 BILLION years for it to finish its fuel.
The immense timescales the sun works in makes 4000 years the equivalent of a fraction of a second.
And therefore the probability of it starting to shine just 4000 years ago, having 4 billion years to go is extremely slim.

"All your doing is following things other people have said. You have absolutly no proof of any of this; the same way no one can prove Christianity or other religions are true."

Sure, all of human civilization might as well be a gargantuous hoax where everything we think we know is just a lie made up by one guy or another.
The fossil records were never there, their existence were just made up by some anti-religous guys.
And C14 dating doesnt really work and everybody that has tested it(large number of universities) has joined the mega-conspiracy circle enveloping the planet making sure we science guys continue to be in the dark.
Sure, it might be the case.. sure.

The way i believe the fossil record is there is not the same as the way religious people believe the bible.
For the fossil records not to have been there requires a conspiracy against every thinking human being on the planet at such an immense scale and with such an immense incentive for anyone realising its fakeness to blow it away that it would never work.

I havent chosen to believe anything.
I come to conclusions basing it on what makes sense.

I am not saying there is no higher power, absolutely not.

Im just saying we shouldnt be listening to bullsh*t like much of the bible.

As long as your open for suggestion.

what if that higher power is God? wouldn't you look stupid?

what is your definition of God?

You know, statistically speaking, it's impossible for 2 billion people to be wrong.

Using that logic:
2 billion believe.
4 billion dont.
=> believers loose and god ceases to exist.

But off course this logic is false, for what people believe does not change the laws of the universe, or god for that matter.

And besides, christian believers are nowhere near 2 billion.
On the surface, sure, but if you start talking to a random selection of people labelled as christians youll find that so many of them dont believe that stuff at all.

ok, and in that '2 billion' (if its true or not), should be close to that number, Christianity is the most popular religion, then by atheism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism (no specific ranking order). So you've got Christian believers, who are greater number than any other believers, and Allah is apparently the same being as God (as said by Muslims). So looks like God is the being believed in most than any other religion. You lose.
Nice try, better luck next time.

guys, explain yourselves better.

When you mean god as in by the bible, say so.
Say the bible god.
When you mean god as in by the koran, say the koran god.

John Doe, what excactly is it that those 2 billion people are claiming or believing?
We are quite unsure of what you are trying to say.

Callo, you have hereby entered a logic where you are checking which religion is most popular and assuming the winner in that determines who is right.
Do you realise what a pile of crap such a claim is?

I just used the logic that you and john doe were using. And didn't you read what I wrote? The bible God and koran God are apparently the same being (as said by Muslims, I don't know 'cause haven't read the koran.)
Want me to write that a couple more times to get through to you?

Yes and i pointed out, right after using it, that it was entirely false.

That even if they do believe in the same thing, that alone would never make them right.

Oh, f**k all you Christians. You should have learned when you found out Santa Claus was a fraud. The Bible is fiction. God is dead. Science has actual fact to back it up, not "faith". Faith is nothing. So shut the f**k up and deal with it: we're alone in this world. The best we can do is to focus on the life we have left and enjoy it together.

Moses didnt turn the sea to blood.I believe Christianity teaches that the Lord God did that.

Hey c*ckCrazyGirl,

Couple of questions for you. If you don't believe in God, cool. Your choice. If you hate Christians, ALSO cool, your choice there too.

But tell me this, why is it that folks like you, who don't believe in God or hate Christians, Feel The Need to belittle and degrade folks WHO do believe (or have found a faith that helps THEM get through this hard life)?

I mean, I don't like muslims much, character flaw, but I don't go out of my way to degrade them.

I can understand not believing in God, but is it really neccessary to hurt folks who do? Is it that you are simply one of those people who ENJOYS doing all you can to hurt others?

And if you Don't believe in God, what do you use to come to grips with your own morality? Just a "Whatever *I* want to do is alright" attitude?

If so, cool, but then if someone Else out there decides to physically hurt, rape, malign or demean You, you don't have much room to complain then, do you?

Hey, I am not trying to convert you, and I am not picking a fight. I just want to understand where you're coming from.

With respect,

Tobra

Much thanks to Mimir2 & helpline, for speaking logically.

@ callo: You're a complete idiot herd conformist. The popularity contest argument isn't worth the TP you wipe your bum with.

@ October/Tobra: How do you define "morality"? Good & bad are simply a matter of individual opinion. Usually, it works like this: "I don't like (insert whatever here), therefore it is bad" & "I like (insert whatever), therefore it is good".

What I am doing here is practicing my FREE SPEECH, just as those manipulative christians do, when they come to my door and attempt to convert me, and rarely take no for an answer, when I tell them I'm not interested in their abnormal beliefs. However, unlike those freaks, I don't go door-to-door and try to force THE TRUTH on them. Why does everyone think it's ok for them to behave in such a fashion, but if someone like myself posts something like this on the internet, everyone gets their panties bunched? Talk about a double standard. Geeesh.

I plan on calling the police on the next brood that shows up at my house. I'll have them charged with harassment.

The hypocrisy is all yours, starHAG.

Telling someone to "shut up" is a part of free speech, you ignorant swine. They don't HAVE to follow my advice, ya know.

Geeesh... you're living proof that age does not always equate to intelligence.

What a mess!

It is further noted that you have absolutely no idea as to what the term FREE SPEECH implies, you pathetic imbecile.

Free speech means I or anyone else can say whatever the hell pleases me/them. If I tell someone to shut up, that is free speech. If someone tells me to shut up, that is free speech.

Free speech is only infringed upon when c*nts like you flag other people's posts, as opposed to just voicing your disdain for the topic.

Free speech is exactly what it sounds like, dumbass. There's no limits. It is only when ACTION is taken against someone (i.e. if I tried to MAKE someone shut up, by flagging their posts, like you) that it becomes threatened. Telling someone to shut up is NOT the same as MAKING them shut up. That is YOUR department, you f*cking cowardly hypocrite. Do you think I don't know how many people you have flagged? THAT is an attempt at censorship.

Now, get out of my sight.

b**ch wat do you have against stargirl!? she is one of the most honest people i know!

Are you her life partner?

Why don't you just let her fight her own battles? She's a big girl.

PS If you truly admire honesty, then you shouldn't have any complaints about my VERY honest opinion.

Run along.

jesus will take his revenge you ignorant bastard yey terrorists

@geleni: waitwaitwait...you're dating a lesbian? Is this true?

Cuz..y'know, I'd be totally up for converting to Christianity if you let me in on a threesome. Just sayin ;)

@c*ckCrazyGirl4Life: Are you the person who asked this question? Because it doesn't look very much like a question at all, which makes it kinda hard to answer. Maybe something to think about for next time.

me and mosses used to hang and sh*t.. he was old

not only that! i eat my cereal with blood... so...

What I find strange is the fact that you said there is no right or wrong. That has to be the most ignorant statement a man can make. By saying there is no right or wrong you instigate that truth does not exist, but if it does not exist then your statement is void. Strange isnt it?

You said "There is no proof to back up the claim that christianity exists." There is also no proof to back up the claim that it does not exist. All the things written in the bible have never been truthfully disproven. Yeah there are people who may say that they "Disprove" certain things but those who have done extensive research with this book have found no contradictions. If you want to believe something, then go for it but do not ever attempt to disprove something with false information. Moses didn't turn the Sea to blood. God turned the water in Egypt into blood. One of the most well known Bible revelations in the world and you couldn't properly quote it. You'll probably give me some disrespectful and unmeaningful reply so I accept that. But hear this, until you get your facts straight about the roots of christianity and the actual evidence vs. no evidence debate, and learn to communicate to others and present a plausible argument without slandering everything they believe in stop posting stuff like this on the internet. Its pointless, Its a waste of bandwidth and it doesn't help anyone except you so you can reassure yourself that you are indeed superior because you can see the faults in a world renowned religion that you obviously haven't researched enough to be attacking.

"Ignorance is a scary thing"

Well considering how angry you seem and how happy about 95% of Christians seem I would say ignorance is bliss =)

On a final note Just because you dont believe something doesnt mean it isnt true. If you cant understand the complexity of my closing statement I apologize.

oh you stupid f**k, you dumbasses who say such words about the bible, is just as bad if you say something bad right in gods face, you'll burn in hell if you dont change your ways

and honestly i dont give a single piece of sh*t, srry for language but any Christian who reads this type of sh*t would say stuff back because you know wat thts the power and love god gives to us all for us to worship him, so u know wat if you dont your prob just shut the f**k, im not the one whos going to burn for eternity!

oh wait, isn't revenge against the 10 commandments? so doesn't that make jesus a sinner, who is suppposedly the son of GOD? you have just experience contradiction, my friend. run along and make up a story that makes sense.

hmm....so god created us huh............so you expect to go to heaven...all thos priests expect to go to heaven...they expect us non-believers to go to hell...well, since we all sinned, what f**king difference does it make? if i'm going to hell, so are you. it's simple as that. i don't believe in god. you believe, but yu use his name in "vain" by using it as a threat of us burning in hell. doesn't that make you no better than I? and god created us, supposedly. so making us burn for the rest of eternity seems a little dark, no?

so your iq is 110 huh? disgraceful. im 140, and english is my SECOND language. on a written iq test, i got f**king 99 percentile b**ch. so look whos talking. if you're under 120 iq, yur opinions on this topic isn't worth half a sh*t. if its over 120, believe god if you want, you still have hope of seeing the real truth. if you're under 120 and do not believe in god, then your iq is not under 120 man, at least when it comes to comprehending TRUTH. yes, i've read the bible. and i must say, its a load of sh*t.

oh, is that so? well guess what, we dont have to proof something DOESN'T exist. it's the way things work. it's like this: if i can't prove something is there, then i cannot argue its there. it doesn't mean its not there, but i have no right to argue that it is until i find proof.
speaking of the POSSIBILITY (based on how i said "if i can't prove something is there, then i cannot argue its there. it doesn't mean its not there"), that would also mean its possible for there to be a god called beerdick in the form of a huge dick. he made us by fertilizing the land with semen. you disagree? you say it's not possible? then you, my friend, just contradicted yourself. if you don't see how you've contradicted yourself, then i must say, i don't blame you for being religious. your iq is too f**king low for it.

people can't always be honest on the internet, that is a fact. if you say mine iq isn't 140, i can say the same about yours. maybe its 60, who knows. you can't always be on top of the iq list, thats life. this isn't arrogance. it's proving to you iq doesn't mean everything. because according to your statement that higher iq means you're right, you've already lost the war. who invented the big bang theory? stephen hawking. and for your information, my iq isn't 140. i just recently took a professional iq test, and proved it to be 149. also, 110 is barely above world average. the chinese average is 110 . i am born there, and you would be considered under-average there.
hope all you want. hoping someone grows up to be a failure is an obvious sign of jealousy. also, it seems people like to call anyone "better" than them "arrogant". if that is the case, you were being arrogant yourself by shownig off your "high" iq of 110. judging by your reaction to my higher iq, i highly doubt you "don't care". and about myself becoming a failure, i'm afraid for you that is not true. i am able to put up an argument with far less fallacies and contradictions compared to you. This alone gives me better chances, however slightly, than you of suceeding.
also, my arguments on this page alone should show you just how high my iq is. from the way you present your arguements, i can safely say that either your iq is lower than 110, or you have a severe temper/ego problem.

You're a complete moron, gunstarbob. The argument of "there's no proof something *doesn't* exist, therefore we should believe in it" is TOTAL lunacy.

That thickhead logic could be applied to MANY ridiculous mythos. There's no proof that leprechauns don't exist, either. Oh well... THEY MUST BE REAL!

Wow, you're stupid.

Somehow, I doubt Jesus would approve of your language, hypocrite.

Remember? Turn the other cheek.

what does the 10 commandments say about revenge? i know it mentions murder (not execution for crimes) but revenge from Jesus would seem to be punishment for breaking a law of God and not murder. i am not looking for someone to start being an a**hole about this but rather someone who will assist me in a search for knowledge.

well there certainly is a higher power because science cannot provide an answer as to how everything originated. the laws of thermodynamics prove that matter can neither be created or destroyed, and that chaos cannot become order. meaning that by our laws of science the only logical explanation is that something that was able to work outside of our laws and reality had to have caused our existence. if someone has anything to disprove this please share. as always, in search of knowledge and not a raving lunatic who will shout condemnations at me for not holding the same beliefs as him/her.

but wait...the Bible is a real book, i have seen one once... making it part of reality. does that mean?... no! it couldnt be...

first of all, it's not really an insult, it's a way of contradicting you. By not reading myu arguement, you are simply turning the otehr way and ignoring evidence, wanting to be engulfed in your dillusions.

well, why believe in a religion if you won't follow it?

it's like saying you like virgin pussy, but refuse to f**k one

Totally AGREED !!

exactly. its embedded in your mind. the evidence is right there, yet you refuse to believe it. think about this: the first law of thermodynamics. it's not a theory. it's a LAW, like gravity and physics.
The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another.
that is a LAW my friend. not your everyday law ofthe goverment, but a FACT. To deny a LAW of physics, gravity, or thermodynamics is simply stupid. you can't deny that gravity keeps you on the ground, and you can't deny that the laws of thermodynamics is real. so, according to the first law of thermodynamics, we CAN'T simply have been created by a greater being. the sun CAN'T have been created.
of course, this doesn't answer the question "how we came to be". if that is your arguement, then you are so desperate for an answer you would willingly believe a false one rather than to keep searching for the RIGHT one.

just because you were born into a religion, it doesn't mean you can't get out of it. many people don't even KNOW they can, while the option is open to them the second they turn 18. depends on the parent, sometimes whenever the kid wants to. besides, theres so such things as a religious child. a child does not have the capability to completely comprehend and decide which religion they are. you can only say "that is the child of a christian," not "that is a christian child,"
A person who completely denies his religion, but refuses to abandon it, is not truely denying his religion. If you TRUELY accept science at it's best, one cannot truely believe god nor creationism and the same time as science.

there are always people who are atheist, yet lists themselves as religious, all because of family members. if the parents are religious, chances are the kids will be too. in my opinion, religion should be kept away from kids till they're 18. before that, kids will believe EVERYTHING you tell them. it is simply not fair for them.
i recommend a VERY good read, "the god delusion" by richard dawkins, a professer of science at oxford university.
now, i can see that the debate is coming to an end. i can show a man the path to take, but i cannot force him to do it. when the only factors left is child influence and family pressure, logic will most likely be uneffective. for many, the love of their family means more than the truth itself. of course, like the saying, ignorance is bliss. i respect your value of love from your family, so i will say no more after this. however, if they really love you, they should respect your own beliefs, like mine has. i will no longer post on this, unless another theist decide to post on this.
i wish you the best of luck, and hope you take the right path. i have given you all the advice, shown you all the logic i known so far. theres far more to know in the book i mentioned earlier, and i recommend it too all.

Though not a Christian myself, I don't understand hating them. For the vast majority of Christians, the belief is a comfort as it makes them feel as though they are a part of something bigger than themselves and gives meaning to their lives. Even if I consider their beliefs to be absurd, if it's something they practise privately, it does not directly impact on my life and it doesn't harm others I don't mind what religion people are. What I object to is Christians who think that their beliefs should shape the laws and customs of the countries they reside in, and intefere with the lives of people who don't agree with their beliefs, but as I said, I don't believe that this is what most Christians are like, I think it's just the backwards ones that have the loudest voices.

that is where i respectfully disagree. read the book i recommended earlier, and you'll know just how much religion, especially christianity, limits our very RIGHT as atheists. it was not recorded, however, in an interview, george bush stated himself that he did not consider atheists to be patriotic or citizens of america. while over 95 percent of the population would vote for homosexuals or blacks, only 49% would vote for atheists as president.
in this world, especially in america, atheists are muchly hated, and are treated as badly as blacks 50 years ago. Many educated personnel on the american counsil had to fake their beliefs in order to be elected. Considering america was founded by men stating that religion should never mix with politics, this country has become a disgrace to it's founders.
from the crusades to modern day racism against atheism, i can honestly say, religion has always been, and always will be, for as long as it exists, an interferance to the proper education of science, and according to your statement, your life. you may not notice it, but the older you get, the more you realise, how much religion has taken away from you. even though religion was taken out of the school education system, there are always presentations on the subject from many churches, and the kids ranging from kindergarden to high school are forced to listen. those kids know only to obey the teacher. they don't even know about religious freedom. to them, they have no choice. it is the same as forcing a child to become christian/morman/whatever religion.
i have experienced this myself when i was 8. i did not know i could leave at any time. and at the time, if a student tried to leave, the teacher would not allow it. i remember the great impact the bible they gave us and the words they gave us had on us. children that young, who does not even have the generally accepted, by science, and by the education system, the big bang theory, already being fed religion. why are children learning a hypothesis, or even a lie, before learning what is accepted by the scientific and educational community as a fact and truth?
those children are easily convinced and manipulated through complicated and hard-to-comprehend words of religion, and, due to human curiosity, every child is bound to have thought of the question, "how did we exist."
most parents would simply say, "you are too young", and leave the kids wondering. how grateful would the kids be, after all that time, to learn what they thought was "the truth"? they wouldn't even understand what a religion was. they'd think that it is the truth. once a child learns something, it is very difficult to change their minds. this is how religion is spread. once you tell a child, who wants nothing more than happiness, and to have fun, that by believing in god they will be forevermore happy, how will you ever convince them otherwise?
how is it that religion has ever been removed from schools? all of what i have written clearly shows, even though it is out of the official system, it is still part of the unofficial one, as a "school event". as long as the perverted hypothesis of creationism is in existence, kids will always be brain-washed by it. nowadays, you hear creationism everywhere. it is impossible to keep a child away from that. this is why, as atheists, we are always affected by religion, creationists, and theists.

it seems i have confused lotsofjunk for undefined. now i will argue against undefined.
thermodynamics is a LAW because NOTHING can work outside of it. many theists disagree, because they say god is omnipotent AND omniscient. well, i can already tell the people who invented this only had half a brain.
you see, for a being to be both omnipotent and omniscient is contradictory. it is a fallacy. it is a paradox, all in itself.
lets assume god is both omnipotent and omniscient. now, lets say that because hes omniscient, he knows exactly how hes going to intervene to change the world into its final stage using his omnipotence. but wouldn't that mean god is unable to change the "future", which he FORSAW using his omniscience? in other words, he can't change his own actions? wouldn't that mean he's NOT omnipotent? so, what if he COULD change the "future" he forsaw. wouldn't that mean what he forsaw earlier was invalid, and therefore proving hes not omniscient.
in this sense, "god" can only be omniscient OR omnipotent. however, a being with only ONE of these qualities isn't even defined as a "god". so you are left with two options.
option one, assuming god is only omnipotent. This would mean he created everything, but has morals as valid as you or me. he cannot see the future, nor predict what we will do. he cannot see every little dark thought we have. this means, he has no control over us. if he did, we are just dolls, without a choice. so why not just go kill yourself now?
now, option two, assuming god is omniscient. this is even worse. this would mean he did not create the universe, and cannot defy laws of gravity, thermodynamics, and etc. in this sense, he wouldn't even be omniscient, since it goes against science and the laws. this would also mean he would have to be created AFTER the creation of the universe, which invalids his very creation, due to the laws.
so, since option 1 pretty much disables god's ability to direct the world or affect us with "faith", this either means god is waiting for a time to just come down and show his face, and admit he can't know a thing.
or, he created the universe and retired after that, just existing without a goal or point, all the way through eternity.
or, there is no god, and all this is talk about the almighty is bullsh*t.

now, abuot the part on the paradox of omnipotence and omniscience. don't give me the bullsh*t about how humans cannot understand a gods doing. that is the weakest arguement, with no merit or proof. there will always be beings that are smarter and can comprehend things you don't. i'm living proof of one. if i can't understand god, then neither can you, which contradicts religion itself, because it proves religion is made up bullsh*t. after all, since humans can't understand god apparently, you can't understand him any better than i. so don't talk, get some proof.

whats with all this religious stuff on here anyway? just do what you believe is the right thing? i don't care if you gay bi or straight i see all people from the same value, that is brotherhood and sisterhood

Amen brother

Hi all =D
I'm a Muslim. Many believe that muslims have something against christians. Nah..! I dont mind them. they are just living their lives and they are the closest reliegion to Islam. Only with a difference that they believe in three, where as we believe in only one.
True, their books might be wrong. But the first ever book given to them were correct!
And dear, you got some facts wrong. Moses [ peace be upon him ] never changed the sea into blood. True, with a touch of a staff he divided into two in order to make a path for them to escape the swords of the infidel pharaoh who Allah drowned later.
In reality every prophet taught the same religion. But the later generations twisted it. Only Islam remained protected since its the last of them. And its real faith will remain protected to those who seek it with true hearts. End of the world is approaching, living Islam is becoming tough. But the smell of heaven is closer! =D
True girl, ignorance is a scary thing.. save your self and just think about everything and Islam. You will find that they aren't that bad after all. =D
PS: i dare you to read the Quran/Koran and think!
and plus.. check this out. Stop questioning, and just think! http://www.beconvinced.com/

"I dont mind them. they are just living their lives and they are the closest reliegion to Islam."

so I guess you only mind the people who have a religion very different from Islam?

I totally agree, i feel that religion is for the weak minded. and as George Carlin said - Religion is bullsh1t.

very true

the truth is out there. tune in next week spidey fans

Okay, there is proof that the Bible is true retards, for example it talks about sodom and gamorra (sp). About a girl that God commanded not to look back at the city gamorra. Well she did it anyways. She then got turned into a pillar of salt. She was left like this for THOUSANDS of years. Recently, archaeologists made a discover in the middle east of a girl turning her head backwards made completely out of salt.

Also, millions of years?? Are you serious??
You've got to be kidding me. The Big Bang?? HAHA Don;t make me laugh. Honestly, what are the chances that a big explosion of chemicals made everything we are and everything that is and ever was. NOT LIKELY. I mean, for example, scientifically speaking, if the sun was 3 inches closer to us, we'd burn to death. However if it was 3 inches farther, we'd all freeze to death. Or how about the fact that every person is made unique. What are the chance that some big boom happened and made everything so perfect. I mean, I don't know about you idiots, but usually when i see chemicals explode, it usually causes a lot of destruction, not make things, much less things as perfect as humans, animals, plants, everything.

And evolution, hahahahahahahaha another lie. I will admit however small evolutions is visible, but not from tadpoles to humans. No. Not real. I mean if it is, why don't you see monkeys turning into humans now? You don't. As a matter of fact, on Darwin's deathbed, he admitted that darwinism or the evolution theory was a lie. He did it just to look smart in front of his peers.

Retard words=
1.Omniscient-having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

2.Omnipotent-almighty or infinite in power

3.Omnipresent-present everywhere at the same time

Ok morons, what does that mean? It means God is not a human, he is not a spirit. He is a spiritual being. He's omniscient, he knows and understands everything. He's omnipotent, his power is limitless. And He's omnipresent, He's everywhere at all times. He is God. You just can't understand that because over the course of your entire lives, you are told what is and what isn't......HUMAN-wise. Humans cannot understand and know EVERYTHING. We do not have unlimited power. And we can't be everywhere at once.

So give up. He's there, and he's watching you, and one day when you're sitting at the gates of heaven hoping to get in, and you don't hear your name get called, you're gonna think, "I should have listened, and damn, it's getting hot."

Thanks.

I don't know what to believe anymore. I do know that I don't want to be part of any church that exists today. Religion is focused too much on homosexual agenda, and abortion, etc. The downfall started with Anita Bryant and it snowballed into hell. I do beleive in a God ,or a being that we cannot explain. I just don't beleive in the same God as Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell. I ve never seen so much robbery and hate in me life!!

im just going to make it simple. if what you say is true, that "god" cannot be understood than humans, then YOU can't either. if i can't understand it, YOU CAN'T EITHER. in other words, you are merely following a two thousand year old book written by HUMANS, who apparently CAN'T UNDERSTAND GOD. maybe evolution is something that requires more intellegence to understand too? maybe it's the same logic. you're too stupid to understand. i'm not. get it?
i already explained god's little omnipotence omniscience contradiction. read it idiot. here, ill even copy paste it for you:

lets assume god is both omnipotent and omniscient. now, lets say that because hes omniscient, he knows exactly how hes going to intervene to change the world into its final stage using his omnipotence. but wouldn't that mean god is unable to change the "future", which he FORSAW using his omniscience? in other words, he can't change his own actions? wouldn't that mean he's NOT omnipotent? so, what if he COULD change the "future" he forsaw. wouldn't that mean what he forsaw earlier was invalid, and therefore proving hes not omniscient.
in this sense, "god" can only be omniscient OR omnipotent. however, a being with only ONE of these qualities isn't even defined as a "god". so you are left with two options.
option one, assuming god is only omnipotent. This would mean he created everything, but has morals as valid as you or me. he cannot see the future, nor predict what we will do. he cannot see every little dark thought we have. this means, he has no control over us. if he did, we are just dolls, without a choice. so why not just go kill yourself now?
now, option two, assuming god is omniscient. this is even worse. this would mean he did not create the universe, and cannot defy laws of gravity, thermodynamics, and etc. in this sense, he wouldn't even be omniscient, since it goes against science and the laws. this would also mean he would have to be created AFTER the creation of the universe, which invalids his very creation, due to the laws.
so, since option 1 pretty much disables god's ability to direct the world or affect us with "faith", this either means god is waiting for a time to just come down and show his face, and admit he can't know a thing.
or, he created the universe and retired after that, just existing without a goal or point, all the way through eternity.
or, there is no god, and all this is talk about the almighty is bullsh*t.

you get that? this is called UNDERSTANDING "god's power". and about the bible having so called proof. tell me more about it. there's tons of prove discrediting the book written by retards. i don't see any that actually PROVE it. evolution has way more proof than that little book. dog breeding already proved evolution possible. we just acted to speed it up.
they have ALSO replicated the beginning of life in a lab. they used massive amounts of radiation and heat for months nonstop. and in the end, the created SINGLE CELLED ORGANISMS. that means god didn't create life.
im sure a narrow minded person like yourself would be wondering, WHO CREATED THE BIG BANG? well for starters, theres no proof saying that it was created in the first place. it's possible that it was always there. besides, creating energy is AGAINST THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS. don't know what it is? go check it out. don't give me sh*t about the laws being created by humans. without the laws of thermodynamics, we'd all be dead.
so lets say that the big bang was created somehow. what makes you so sure that it has to be a god? are you really that narrow minded? god isn't the default. gaps in history are not filled by god by default. keep an open mind, fool.
about proving the bible wrong, ill give yu a few ways right now. according to the bible, the universe was made 10000 years ago. no dinosaurs, no meteors, none of that. we have PROOF of fossils dating more than 10 million years before. how do we know how old a fossil is? carbon dating retard. unless you are blind, the dinosaur fossils are real. so why didn't the bible mention the dinosaurs? how did noah fit into a ship every species in the world, including dinosaurs? even if dinosaurs did not exist, noah would have to have travelled into north america to have all the species. and north america wasn't discovered until the 11th century by vikings.
doesn't that already disprove much of what the bible has to say? the old testament supported the ownership of women to men, killing of one's own children, and homosexuals, GOD'S OWN CREATION! that seem very much like a righteous god to you??
now, there's more. the DEVIL. if god is omnipotent, he can make the devil disappear and the world a perfect place with no downside, and make every being have faith in him, with a snap of a finger. why doesn't he do that? because he CAN'T? then he is not omnipotent.
now, the last contradiction for god that i will write today. there are alot more. pringletot2 can help me later, im too lazy today. consider the following:
you say that the world must be created. why? is it because all of us are so complicated? the position of the earth, all of that? it's just too magnicicent to happen by chance? well, for beginners, its not chance. ill explain anotehr day, im too lazy now. but ill just give you the advantage for now, and argue on the postulation that the world have to have been created by a greater being because it is too complicated and magnificent. well, a being who can create all this MUST be even more complicated and magnificent. that would mean "god" would ALSO have to have been created. so who created god? that being will also have to have been created, creating an infinite regress. instead, the big bang gets rid of that infinite regress. where did the big bang come from? we're not sure yet. however, we know there's an answer out there that does not involve the fallacies of a god, like i just showed you. remember, an unanswered question is not the same as a question answered by god. god is merely a false possibility out of many more unknown ones. since god is illogical and falliable, it is no longer even a possibility. if you are not satisfied by this, i will gladly post more. i have already contradicted the bible many times.
BUT, before i leave, i will tell you how the salt lady was made.
i have already proved the world to be more than just 10000 years old. now, fossils are basically imprints made of rock. there are different types of rock. one of them is SALT. there are countless salt rocks in the world, and eventually, one of them is bound to be reconizable as a "human being".
do you realize what you have just shown of yourself? you have shown that anything you do not know, you decide to blame god. how was the world created? gee, i can't answer that. why not just say god did it? i don't have to think too much to come to that conclusion.
ill get pringletot2 to come here and help you see light. when the person if stubborn, one is never enough. don't get me wrong, i can contradict everything you say to prove god. however, pringletot2 won't be very happy that i left him out of the action. what i have said today should already have proven to you that there IS NO GOD. if you still believe in that little falsehood called deity, then you are simply blind and stubborn, and no amount of truth will help you.

Ok well I think Wildchild has already explained it better than I can but still here goes.

I completely agree with Wildchild there are a lot of things that don't exactly make sense I mean for one us being here, no god would create us seriously we have destroyed this earth a lot quicker than any animal could hope for. If god's power was infinite then why does he let his own planet to be destroyed by us? Why is there the devil where god could easily destroy him? Why does he allow many people to believe in other gods or no god yet he could easily change our thought without us even knowing? Answer because there is no god, or even if there is a god he seems to enjoy watchin us kill ourselves and f**k other peoples lives up.

That salt statue thing ever thought that 1) it could just look like a person coincidentally or 2) it was a man-made sculpture and then it had that story placed around it, this happens a lot when theres a building or sculpture and noone knows who built it.

Ok I'll humor you, there is a god, because you know its perfectly logical that Noah could spend 100 years building an arc, and he lived up to 950 yrs old, I mean who couldn't believe that???? Well still why does the great all powerful god test us here? he knows the future he can tell whether we would be good or bad, he could easily enough split it up before we're even born. Then there's no second chances, you f**k up once your paying for it for eternity, then there's us torturing and murdering each other and he sits back and watches us but doesn't do anything, plus we enslave people, we still do btw it is not over yet, why would he allow us to do that? Man he's a very nice and peaceful god now isn't he? the only reason for us to pray to him is out of fear, and fear is the worst reason to worship someone. If you hadnt guessed I was being sarcastic thru quite a bit of this.

Who could believe that we originated millions and millions of years ago as a very basic form of life and just adapted to fit our environment over time, so retarded (sarcasm again, I thought I might need to tell you that) and when those scientists made that amino acid using the theory of what earths atmosphere was made up of in the beginning of the planet, just after the big bang, that was just god right? he wanted us to think that we culd make life so he did it for us and never took the credit right? oh he is so generous. Ok I'm going to stop being sarcastic now, as many of you probably think I was serious there, even though I said I was being sarcastic.

You probably didn't need to read the last 2 paragraphs I was more of just wittering on, but oh well, if your reading this u probably already read the others.

Well Ok, serious again. WE have proved that the earth is more than 10,000 years old, and if that is wrong what stops other parts of the bible and the word of god from being wrong. The big bang theory, well there could have been billions of big bangs and eventually one of them would hold give us the right stuff to support life, plus there are loads of planets throughout space take that stuff into consideration and it's not exactly surprising that there is life on at least 1 planet. In fact if there is too much gravitational pull of the universe it all collapses down back into one single dot, so small you can hold it in your hand, and then wat happens after that happens? you guessed it, another big bang, but this time all the atoms of everything are in a different order so the universe is completely different this time around. The universe might be perfect this time around and stop expanding while still being able to support life, it could have too little gravity pulling at the corners of the universe, which means it will expand so much that everything will be too far away from anything for there to be any light shone on earth, let alone there being enough heat for us not to freeze to death. Or there can be too much gravity pulling it down (as I mentioned above.)

If you think that the big bang just can't of come into existence on it's own then how did god come into existence on his own? and if god could then why can't the big bang have used all the gasses and sh*t to make the large expansion of the universe all by itself?

Anyway I hav to go now so I can't write any more, hopefully you understood most of what I was saying, I think I jumped around a lot there and didn't make much sense but I've never been good at writing.

bump

thanks pringletot2
i don't think that guy is gunna come back...it's really stupid, they want to argue, but only stay long enough to say their part.

yeah, if you want an argument you should at least try to counter the other sides argument as well

I wish ignorant christians - or members of any faith/religion for that matter - would realise that "atheism" is NOT a religion OR faith - it is being "A-(as in NOT) THEIST (as in beliefs)"

It's not like we believe in there not being a god - it's just that there isn't a f**king god there in the first place to beleive in!

And don't retort with some rubbish like "well that's what YOU believe!"

Imagine if you are a Christian, do you believe the Hindu God Ganesh does not exist? Or do you not believe in Ganesh?

If you believe that unicorns do not exist, then may I say that you a member of the "No unicorns" religion? Is it a matter of faith that unicorns do not exist? Can I come along to your non-unicorn church with you tomorrow?

There is a big difference between positively believing that a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence.

It's not even a matter of god or no god. it's a matter of a group of religions dictating to a group of NON-religious who DO NOT share the same views or beliefs. why is it O.K. for a religion to tell me what to do based on some book and beliefs i want nothing to do with, and don't give me your noble morels B.S. I've got my own and they don't include hatred , oppression and intolerance I.E.
christians who's "don't do as I do, do as I ..." oops! I mean "as god tells you to do" attitude makes me sick and are the reason I will always reject organized religions. Spirituality and religion are not the same.

I believe a lot of people feel the same way you do, but unless they are forcing christian beliefs on you then you don't really have any right to hate them. I personally dislike the religion, but if someone wants to believe in some supreme being in control of the universe its probably because they are scared of whats after death. and you can't blame them, it is in our nature to be afraid of the unknown. You can dislike Christianity, or even Christians themselves, but it doesn't give you the right to be ignorant.

Yay first time poster long time reader, i thought i'd add my 2 cents worth of opinion.

Ok well first of all i am a christian but not a die hard christian i'll go to church every now and then im not really too fussed about it.

Ok well all the people stating the bible is all fake and crap the people who believe the bible word for word are the fundamentalists and too be honest i think these guys are wackos, these people believe dinosaurs don't exist because they weren't in the bible.

And if you skip past the abuse and opinions Mimir2 actually has some decent facts backing up his argument and too deny his argument completely isn't very smart.

Also although the bible was written ~ 2000 years ago there has been many, many copies of it found through out the years which implies that the writings in the bible today have not changed too much since when it was first written.

And lastly it all comes down to what your opinion of GOD is, there's a book mostly fiction but has non-fiction melded into it its called Angels and Demons written by Written by Dan Brown ( the same guy who wrote The Da Vinci Code) its a good read and i recommend it but some of the stuff he explores in it is quite good to think about and with the recent happenings in Switzerland with CERN and the particle accelerator, they were trying to find the buildings block of life to more understand it these were the most basic atoms of pure energy they were called the GOD atom or something, anyway the book explores that the atoms are pure energy and the big bang theory claims that the universe started from an explosion of pure energy from a single point so depending on your view of God whether you see god as a old man with a white beard or as a singular source of pure energy.

Any i've just put my opinion forward and i've tried to look at both sides hope this helps a bit.

With the guys that come around to the doors yer they'd piss me off too but they're just people who have found happiness and want people to find the same happiness, but even knowing that if they ever came around to my place i'd say go away and if the persisted i'd let the doberman loose.

And to all the people who swear in your post, i have nothing against swearing but when reading these post when people just have abuse it just makes the person look ignorant and any good points they have are shadowed because of this.

Anyway this is my first post so be nice :P

i don't completely disagree with yu. i can accept the definition of "god" as energy, but it will not be the god religious folks believe in. the definition of god for most religions is one who is omnipotent, omniscient, and the greatest good there is. if you call the big bang itself "god", you are not refering to a real god, so why call it that? just call it energy. since the bible is full of fallacies, it is obvious that it's made up by man. for some people it makes their life happy, i can understand that. but is it really worth it? i would rather live a sad poor man understanding the truth about this universe than live a life as a happy poor man who is oblivious to reason. saying that, there are many people who already live a happy life and believe in god. why? it won't make a difference. with or without religion, good people will do good things, evil people will do evil things. but for a good person to do evil things, THAT takes religion. that makes the benifit of religion a happy life, the con countless deaths in crusades and terrorism. is that really worth it?
if they can understand this logic, then there is none other explaination than low intellegence. common sense tells us that such a being cannot exist. intellegence in the form of science tells us such a being cannot exist. so why do we still believe? even if they were indoctrinated at a young age, threatened with a make-belief hell, it doesn't take much brain to figure out it's impossible. are they simply too stupid to see that its impossible? or do they choose to believe even thou the cons greatly overcome the pros, and its obvious such a being cannot exist, out of pure ignorance? i say that's even worse than low intellegence. that brings out the worst of us. our GREED and DESIRES. if the bible did not promise heaven and hell, none of us would believe. perhaps this is why many choose to believe?
you may say im making the assumption that god does not exist. but before you say it, read over all i've said on this page, and this one:
http://isitnormal.com/story/23635/
you asked for me to be nice, do i did. i can see you may be simply seeing things from the wrong perspective. i say this because you openly admit that anyone who believes everthing the bible says is wrong. your arguement is mainly based on the purpose and good of religion. thats a good for me too, because #1 i don't have to write as much, and #2 i don't have to go on the offensive to use occasional verbal abuse (i really hate idiots who believe everything they read from a 2000 year old book).
thats it for today, tata!

as a fellow atheist, i have to respectfully disagree. they are doing more harm than you think. read over the arguements i placed on this page and the link i gave on the previous arguement. there i fully explain how the existance of religion directly impacts atheist right.
here's a piece i have not said before:
i believe religion is holding back the developement of human civilization. as long as man choose to believe in such ridiculous theories of creation, we will never be able to advance into the next era. if we are to explore space, find out how the universe is created, find out all the secrets of this universe, we have to put behind us the religious dogma man has created. religion is like a handicap, preventing us from seeking truth about the universe. many theists would not even consider spending money on research on how the universe was created if it relates to science. you see how this affects us to find the truth? im sure there are die-hard theists out there who will do anything to prevent their god from being disproven, even if they know "god" doesn't exist. "god" is a boulder tied to our feet, and science is the scythe to release it. until religion is left behind us, we will never be able to take the great leap foward.

Since the bible was written 2000 years ago they knew very little science and religion has had to develop to be able to keep up with the modern age the pure energy thing comes from religion saying that god invented the universe saying that a singular thing created the universe the GOD atom is just a way for science to coexist with religion because if the GOD atom theory is correct then it means the universe was created from a singular source, which is what religion states, quite a few well known scientists were religious men and tried to use science to prove the existence of god Galileo was a religious man, Isaac Newton and yer off the top of my head i can't think of anymore.

I won't write anymore because i don't actually care that much for this topic people can believe what they want as long as it doesn't have a drastic impact on me i don't care what they do (it's probably selfish but it's the truth) It's just fun to have a small debate with people who actually post reasonable arguments.

I don't hate Christians, but I believe that religion is ruining the world. I pity Christians; they stay all their lives with a passionate need for eternal authority and guidance, pretending not to trust their own judgment.

The fervent fundamentalist whether Protestant or Catholic, Jew or Moslem is closed to reason and even communication for fear of losing the security of childish dependence.

You're bible is nothing more than rich powerful men on an ego trip, holier than thou corruption and violence (because violence is only ok if Christians use it, God commands ONLY Christians have the right to kill, mame and defile.) You see the type of mind frame these fundamentalists have? Even though there were many different religious beliefs before theirs and many new ones to follow; they are the only ones that are correct and they MUST use force and then they will get to go to heaven?

Christians are the most evil people alive; the ones that follow the bible fully. The ones that pick and chose parts of it because they think it makes them a 'good person' are just hypocrites and dullards. The bible is one of the most dangerous books in our existence, and it's Christian's chimpanzee part of the brain falling for all of this.

AHAHAHAAAAA
yet another person that deserves a so called "heaven" way more than the christian idiots.
im bored with no good debates goin on so ima make a list of ppl who are very gud at this =D
list of very smart atheists and deists:)
mirir2
pringletot
pringletot2
c*ckCrazyGirl4Life
PooLTOY
samwise
lixzone(who happens to be my brother)
meatcurtain
and don't forget WildChildTDC :)
and the countless more who are trying to rid this world of ignorance
list of smart theists who still has hope:
lotsofjunk
list of plain dumbass idiots that you shouldn't even try to debate with:
sungirl (who actually has trouble copying a name and spelling it right. rmb her, pringletot?)
DoctorZip
list of the top threads for god debates on isitnormal:
http://isitnormal.com/people/WildChildTDC/comments/
and of course this one :)

im amazed. i just read on yahoo about the new creation museum. if you read the comments, i promise you you will get pissed off at how ignorant those people are.
"science was created to prove god's creations"
bullsh*t. btw thats what one guy said >_>

http://isitnormal.com/story/9257/#new-comment-form come on join in the convo.

Go burn. people who dis christians piss me off.

Moses did not turn the sea into blood. According to Exodus 7:14-25 he turned the Nile River into blood. You are right. Ignorance is a scary thing.

Athisum is the lack of a religon and athiest all beileve different thing. Its not a religonn in its self.

Science trys to explane everything about the world, so maybe we will know for sure how the universe was made. Theology says "We know enouth, read the bible". If we followed the theology idea we would still be in the stone age.

why do u think all u people who hate Christians or dont believe in God have all these problems or are sad or are depressed or are out of a job or fricken not happy with your self. Cause u dont believe in God and are ignorant idots. God does exist read about not only in bible there has been plenty of mariacles that happen through faith and through God.

ps sorry cant spell

My opinion, being christian and all, i will try to make it as least biast as possable. FACT #1, many records, documented sightings, and tens of other accounts have been made to seing the ark of Noah. FACT #2 Pangea. It was real, however, that was because there wasnt very much water on the surface to begin with. Where did that water come from? Well, it was always here, but underneath the earth's crust. But i will get to that later. My supporting evidence for the flood, is that meteors have been found on the moon and on earth that ARE of the earth, not a random space rock. And yes, they are from space. How is that possable? The water under the earth rose up through a fault in the earths crust and sent them flying. The approximated force of this uprising was that of three hundred trillion hydrogen bombs exploding at once. This force moved the continants from Pangea, to the current known world. Yes the earth has platelets that move, but the current rate doesnt support Pangea for the simple fact that no rock has been found that is old enough to put the current world back into the original Pangea form. If this makes no sense to you then you either arent terribly smart, i lost you somewhere because my english isnt that grand, or you refuse to accept facts. If you are still curious but reluctant to accept the truth, research before you make any conclusions.

I don't hate Christians any more than I hate anyone who believes in any religion. That being said, organized religion is the greatest poison in the history of humanity. Look at any almost any terrible act that people have committed against each other and you will find religion at its root.

I totally agree with you: christianity, just like any other organized religion, is based on anecdotes, outdated "scientific" knowledge, a lot of wishful thinking and myths. About a few thousand years ago, when humans began to finally gather together as civilizations and had evolved past the caveman and hunter/gatherer lifestyle, religion and the "spirituality" (which later turned ugly) developed. It's sort of a natural evolutionary process given our highly developed brains.

Having the need to believe in something to give our lives sense is very important. It is what keeps us going, what gives us hope..knowing that somewhere out there, there is a meaning to it all and that we will be rewarded in some world, if not in this one.

Come on, admit it...most of us wouldt get out of bed and put up with all the bullsh*t we put up with if it werent for a promise of eternal salvation and happiness.

Existential uncertainty is frightening so people turn to religion; someone higher who supposedly did it all for us

Maybe so...god can be this universe and all that is in it...

but a man walking on water and defying all laws of physics? Healing the sick with a touch of his hands? Awakening from the dead...being born to a virgin (how is that even physically possible unless Marie did lots of gymnastics at around -1 A.D...)...and, why do such things never EVER happen these days anymore? Why did all those miraculous things happen only happen in the past but in the present, somehow everything works according to the laws of nature?

are you guys for real?

Everyone always says there is no evidence for evolution, despite thousands upon thousands of pages of studies, yet they believe the outdated anecdotes written in some pesky old book by some old, ignorant, white, bigots with lots of issues...

Great. Evolution which has been substantiated in millions of books and publications and studies and papers etc is said to not have any proof, yet one book (the bible) is supposed to be all the evidence they need to believe in a man walking on water and being born to a virgin...

Go figure that logic.

I guess it is this immense capacity for self-delusion that will be our downfall. It never seizes to me amaze me.

By the way, just because someone is not a religious person and thus chooses to not believe in anecdotes as universal truths, doesnt mean they have no morals or principles or can tell right from wrong and be good people. How about being good because you believe goodness and cooperation are the laws of nature, not commands that if you dont follow, will mean punishment?

As far as i can see, Christians and most other religious people are nice (if they are not caught up in some hypocrisy to justify their actions) cause they are afraid they wont go to heaven and be rewarded.

It's all about "what's in it for me" in the end with all these religious people. What do i have to do to join?

Religion - be it christianity and its million sects, judaism, islam...are all just stories aimed at bringing some organization to peoples' lives. Stories which later were taken so seriously that they caused many deaths, a lot of suffering, discrimination, wars...(think crusades as just one example). And that still hasnt changed. If you dont believe me, pay a visit to Palestine or go to Ireland. Wait, havent the latter been killing each other now for decades..and they are BOTH CHRISTIANS?

But yeah it later turned ugly and then was (and still is) used as a tool to manipulate people into being nothing but the pawns of those who desire control and power. All in the name of some wishful thinking about a man who said he died for out sins.

But why did god make us with sin? since he is god, he could have made that sin go away and not be counted and start from scratch, create nicer and more obedient adams and eves.

and why would a benevolent, almighty god that created this universe in all its intrinsic beauty be a god who just wants to be worshipped? Isnt that a little...arrogant? I dont think god is like that. He doesnt have an ego. He shouldnt have an ego...he is god - our loving father, not our jail overseer.

And why create us one way and then set the rules at the exact opposite? Who would do that? Unless they got some sick sense of humor or the need for self validation and assertion of power.

Sounds awfully human, and not divine, to me.

No one (at least no educated person with average brain function typical for humanoids at this stage of evolutionary development) can tell me that these questions and doubts that i raised never crossed their minds? That they never wondered.

Just because you believe in something, doesnt make it true. And faith tells you to do exactly that: just believe in it, blindly - no questions asked.

by the way, my post was directed at the original poster...

this is directed at Moonlighting AND the original poster.

Alright jackballs, so you don't believe in God, huh?

Okay, fine. You'll get no problem from me on that, this is a free country after all.

But WHY, original poster, do you say that you HATE CHRISTIANS? You don't believe in God, hey, it's your right. But why do you (Both) feel as though you have to demean and mock others for finding comfort in THEIR beliefs?

That's my problem with non-christians and people who dislike religion - they can't seem to leave others to have their beliefs in peace.

Lest anyone feel I am playing favorites, I ALSO cn't stand the really Zelous type of Christians who get all up in your face and ORDER you to believe the way THEY believe.

*I* am a Christian. I worship My God in My way. I don't flaunt it on street corners or go door to door bothering people but I believe and I can take comfort in that.

So why must *I* be hated simply because you, poster, don't share my faith? Is it maybe because the whole idea of religion and something greater than you is a threat to your ego?

You and Moonlighting - I don't Care if you believe in God, if you don't believe in God and think it is all so much bullsh*t, or if you sit in your bathtubs and worship watermellons - by candle light.

But please extend me the same consideration. Who/What *I* worship is none of your damned concern!

Tobra

Tobra,

as a good christian you should stop throwing around so much hatred and the whole "damned" and "jackballs" - doesnt make for good civil conversations.

And I dont care what you believe: Santa Claus or Jesus or an amoeba...it's your call. Just as long as you dont try to make others feel inadequate cause they dont...go worship whoever you want. But let this be told: most christians are not like "oh i do my thang and i am a good person and i dont bother anyone". They DO bother everyone with their narrow-minded, bigoted worldview.

I mean look, because of a neo-con right wing religious party (that is using religious manipulative tactics) we have sh*t like we have now: judges against abortion, teaching unscientific crap like creationism in schools, wanting to mix church and state...

it makes me sick - makes me wanna throw up. And then you tell me "I" shouldnt talk hate?

I do believe in god, i just dont believe in organized religion. Religion is the disease, the cancer of this society. It has done more harm than good.

And what would you replace religion with?

A "Do whatever feels good to you" mentality might Sound good, but when happens when everyone takes that mentality and then one of them decides that it would make them feel good to do You serious bodily harm?

Hey, I am religious, not near perfect. I don't cram my faith down people's throats, but when some people down religion because They don't care for it and start saying that it shouldn't be allowed...

Well, to each his own.

Tobra - IIN Diva

I didnt say it shouldnt be allowed. Whatever makes you happy...the point was, religious people treat religion like it was the truth...and THERE IS NO PROOF. Not one iota of proof. and if it is not the truth, how can you base your life on a fairy tale?? IS there anything in the bible that has been proven? You might as well say that you strongly believe in Santa Claus or the easter bunny. It is EXACTLY the same thing.

Just because you need to believe in SOMETHING doesnt mean that the something has to be fairy tales. Religious people are the worst anyway: they are the biggest hypocrites, the most intolerant...i mean you know how religious people are said to be the ones who are supposed to love everyone and care for everyone and embrace others, yet they are always the ones being quick to judge someone as not worthy or beneath them because they are not in their religion. And it is always the god-less faithless people you claim have no morals, who are always the ones accepting someone despite their faith. And I do: as long as the other person keeps their faith to themselves or introduces me to it without the "holier than thou...let me save your soul" kind of attitude, I am fine. I have friends who are religious...

I myself just commented on 'I hate muslims' and i would like to say that while you dont agree with them there is no need to interfere with the faith that they hold in their hearts. People have a right to believe. Just stay away from relihious conversations(its what i do).

Let me guess, muslim right?

F**K ALLAH F**K ALLAH RIGHT IN THE ARSE

id replace religion with SEX ha ha ha ha... :P
make love not religion...
(ok... i now its retarded...but you know what i mean...)

i hate jews(male's)... i wish they would jump from an aby (exept female's) :P

yes perfectly normal. I hate christians too. In fact I hate almost everyone. Americans, Muslims, Christians.

Yes Muslims top the list. but the Christians are only a millimeter behind followed by Americans.

They all suck. Everytime a behavior turns to addiction, and it is safe to say that all religions are drugs (or as Marx called it the "opiate of the masses") - it's bad news. Being a fanatic is never good.

Most people are religious for a few reasons

1) by default - cause that's something that you just grew up doing and cause the idea of this all having been created by no divine intervention seems...strange (note: most uneducated people think like this)

2) you want salvation and rewards and are scared of consequences if you dont do A, B, C (i.e. people are good cause they wanna be rewarded afterwards and not burn in hell...)

Come to think of it: i must laugh at the idea of a whole species of humanoids that have achieved amazing things technologically actually thinking that there is a hot, bad place that will torture you at some point when you depart, if you havent been a good christian/muslim,jew...that's just stupid. Why not then also say that the Earth is flat...it's exactly the same thing.

Agreed.

for me i am a "christian". to me it is kinda hard to believe that some explosion happened and then all life started. I am not making fun of people who believe in it or nothing just stating what i believe. if you have read the bible at all you would know that there is proof of events that had happened in the bible like how they found half of Noah's arc upon a top of a mountain there is proof to a man Jesus being born and crucified. I personally think that it is easier to believe in a higher power that created life than an explosion. it is stupid that atheists say they believe in nothing when clearly they believe in believing nothing. and even for people who are not "christian" still have a believe in a higher power like Buddhists and other religions still believe that a higher power created life. only so called atheists dont have a religion.

Good point("I hate christians") although liable to offend many here.
I always think about it like if someone believed so much in this old book and found a historical figure in it and then was 'praying to, and seeing or feeling it' would go down at the shrinks as a pyscosis and they'd be medicated.
My opinion only To truly think there is a heaven and a hell is really anal, but the worst part is that they WONT LISTEN to anyone elses beliefs because they say theirs is the one and only TRUE WAY.
Keep it to themselves ok but ram it down your throat, jesus that pisses me off!

ignorance is being sure of something you can't prove. works for both sides...

i'm not christian, but i dont hate them
i'm muslim
half of them hate muslims but i still dont hate them cuz in our islamic way we have to recpect other religions.

Organized religion is the biggest waste of time in human history. Generations and generations of pussies that are too afraid to realize that we came from evolution. Greed is the driving force of every human being in this world, that is why "followers" believe in an afterlife......they want more, what they have now, and what they lived is not good enough, there has to be more! And of course many years ago, some smacked out looney wrote a long book of bullsh*t called the Bible " there was not much to do in those days" saying that this Jesus man did all of these things, and he was sent down here from god, "the biggest Lie ever told" to save us from our sins. What a load of sh*t that is. Nothing changed, we are stil dying, killing, robbing, f**king, raping, but now we wear crosses and go to church...where some biggot a**hole wears a curtain, rants on about so called "morality, and such" but not before asking you to contribute money to the church....Are you all f**king stupid?? he probably makes more money then any of you!! i want to become a pastor or priest just to make as much money as they do. Church is the biggest scam there has ever been, they take your money, time, molest your children over and over, where is your god??? He doesnt exist.
And if you Christians are "told" like a dog, to love thy neighbor...why do you Hate homosexuals? Christians are so proud, and think they know whats true, its all crap, how stupid can you be?, Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, and every other type of religious organization is based on lies, and every church should be burned. You lie to your children about santa, and fairies...what makes you think someone at some point didnt lie to YOU? take you heads out of your ass.

"Amen"

Christians are hXc. Leave them be. Anyway, would it not be more accurate to say you hate religion? Most of the things you hate about Christianity can be said about most of the mainstream religious types.
(I'm not religious, in case you were wondering.)

The "Theory of Evolution" has been around for over 150 years, yet no one has proven Darwin's claim, thus making it a fact. To say, therefore, to claim a Christian is "too afraid to realize that we came from evolution", is in of itself, nonsense. To the contrary, however, science is beginning to apply the idea of "creationism" to explain and solve some of its more compelling challenges. Following that logic, is the notion that historians not only are finding more and more of the biblical stories aligned, but more of the biblical professies are coming to fruition. But then again, it is very easy to make hate filled comments regarding christianity and the Bible, when one has obviously never read it.

It is very easy to understand how the "big bang" ocurred. God said "BANG"!!! and the universe was created!

Go back and read your Koran. It says the infidel, those that are not Muslim, must either convert, or die. Eventually, your Muslim extremist brothers will ask that you make that comittiment, as they do in the Middle East, and as they are beginning to require in Europe. First they "sell" the Muslim faith as non-threatening, allowing it spread as a "mainstream" religion. Then the radical follow-on comes, demanding the "holy" comittment in the name of Jihad. The Koran also says that it is O.K. to lie tothe infidel, in order to gain his trust as you wait for that day...

I never hated children. I never thought being pregnant was disgusting. But I unfortunately got a girl pregnant who refused to get an abortion, even after I cried and begged her. Now we have a baby. I'm finishing my last year of college and having a baby changed my whole world. I absolutely hate kids and I now find pregnancy completely disgusting. I feel sorry for people I see pregnant. I feel even sorrier for the fathers of the of the unborn children. I hate being a daddy. I hate changing diapers, hearing whines and cries, I hate it all. I sometimes just want to get away and move to a different country to escape. I feel completely trapped by this woman. If i stay with her, then I have to be a daddy to this stupid kid. If I bounce, then of course she will put me on child support. I am between a rock and a hard place. I just wish she would have gotten an abortion.

People say when you have a kid, and you see him for the first time and you hold him, your feelings change. I beg to differ. I hate that little bastard and I wish he had never been born. He is breaking my damn wallet and is costing me an arm and a leg. Ive worked hard my whole life hoping to have a successful life, and here comes a woman I sleep with who refuses to have an abortion, and takes away my success. I'm ruined because of her. I sometimes wonder if I should just let her put me on child support and then just dip and never have anything to do with her or the baby. Never seeing her or the baby would actually make me very happy. I thought I was evil for feeling this way, but I can see there are more people out there. I'm glad I found this site

and btw. christianity isnt a religion-its a lifestyle. and you can be as normal as anybody and still serve christ. All a christian is.. is a person with less negativity in their life and a forsure destiny. All these "religions" dont mean anything if the people aren't "truly" serving god. The reason people are against "christians" is because of the people who "claim" to be one and make us "true christians" look like hateful, stuck up, miserable, people stuck in lala land. Once you meet a "true" christian.. you will realize that all them other fakers were nothing. But of course we pray that one day they will make the decision to truly follow christ. Just please dont give up ur salvation due to falsely claimed "christians". They are how bias' are formed against us. they give us a bad rap. I assume that you have met many of them. and i am sorry. i just hope you wont let them affect how you decide to live.

I agree w googoogirl - all those Baptist mega church gangs of 'christians' who act like their s**t doesn't stink are not true christians.

Hahahaha!!!! That was the best rant against Christianity I have ever read - just perfect in every subtle nuance! You know, some churches take that money and do things like feed the homeless, take them in out of the cold, give them clothes to wear, etc. Some churches even give free counseling to poor people. You act like it's just some mega-scam and all the pastors are living up in Beverly Hills! Hahahaha!!! The Bible wasn't written by some 'smacked out looney.' It's trying to preach 'love' to a race that's just barely begun to be civilized...cultured for a few millenia, and that's it. We were all hunter-gatherers just a few thousand years ago, slitting each-others' throats. Now we annihilate each other with nuclear weapons. God's not going to come down and put us all where he wants us to be, like a bunch of G.I. Joe action figures. We have to do it ourselves! Ask a true christian for help, and you'll get help. Ask for food, water, understanding, and you'll get it.

If your God is so omnipotent, why did He:

1.) allow the *possibility of sin entering into the world in the first place by putting the damn tree in the garden

2.) impose such heinous consequences for eating the fruit of that tree

3.) put people through wars of mass annihilation and bitter strife for thousands of years before

4.) killing himself to guilt-trip all of us and

5.) conveniently disappear from the face of the Earth and give us nary a miracle/sign of His existence since then (need i add all the accounts of "faith-healed" cripples dying the next day, and amputees never regaining a limb except through *surgery which doesn't count)

6.) leave us to bicker over the "true" meaning of his "word"/"commands" (whatever that may be- revealed through the Bible, Koran, Talmud, or some crackhead's golden specs), and even *kill each other over it (witness: Israel-Palestine)

7.) make this world of pain and suffering so excruciating AND demand endless worship/contrition...

... when he could so *easily have done things otherwise...?

(I could name a lot more- flaws in the "perfect" human body, the perpetuation of hatred by the church and such, but i'm lazy)

Please, answer.

Simply leaving it to "his infinite wisdom", "mysterious ways", and "someday it'll all make sense" *WON'T cut it (fyi that's what cults use to shut up dissenters). There are *real problems in the here and now which won't be solved by some Bronze Age relic.

It is a "theory" in the same way that there is a "theory" of electricity or gravity. No one has met the standard of proof required to turn these theories into "facts", but i doubt you'd want to test the "theory" of gravity by stepping off a 300-foot cliff.

Quibbling over semantics doesn't advance your credibility one bit. This only shows up your despearate attempts to hide your ignorance.

What kind of God does this?

It's like an artist spewing crap over the canvas and demanding that we bow down in awe of him and his shoddy "work"... otherwise we'll get shot and thrown in an eternal pool of acid.

I can't prove that there are *absolutely no hobbits or pink unicorns *somewhere in the universe.

Am i arrogant to say that, based on the evidence, they *probably do not exist?

I doubt so.

man.... there are alot of comments for this one :P but ya... nothings wrong with thinking that there's a higher power out there and that there's more to your life. It also gives people joy. I will say that religion may/may not (I don't know) have been used as a political tool in the past but it still gives hope to people and sometimes that's all that's needed to help people... so really is there anything worng with that

try to lighten up alittle and faith in something is a good thing

Good luck in hell!
And I 'm christian and I haven't planned out a second of my life, i don't even go to church! But I read the bible. I can see someone haveing a different religion and all but you can't just say christians are the crazy ones, all regions are f***ed up and unbelieveable.

Me too, I'm too old for fairy stories. Why do they keep trying to force people to reject common sense?

I agree exept all religions are like that WHAT THE HELL DO THEY KNOW???????? a floating man way up high (but somehow not in space!?!?!?!) created everything but who created him

I am in agreement with you generally, although i have found that there is NO ablsolute position i can support. Just FYI C-14 dating is useless for abiotic substances, like rock and minerals. C-14 decays musch to quickly and so anything older than 14,000 years is too old to date with it. It is best or dating bone,or wood chips and organic material like that. It IS possible to date inorganics using the known decay rate of UNRANIUM isotopes all mineral contain,234U/238U which decays over millions of years. Some fanatical apologists for magical belief systems that deny epirical facts, KNOW THIS, and will try to discredit your whole argument by pointing this out. Now your ready for them : )

you're just living in reality as opposed to those religious fools who live in a dreamworld. Its totally normal to hate christians, every self respecting person does.

thats stupid is it that you hate them or you afrade of them

I'm siding with whoever wrote this. I don't "hate" Christians, but they can be very irritating sometimes. Spouting nonsensical messages like "Blasphemer! You will burn and suffer in Hell if you don't repent and accept Jesus!" when their religion is criticized. It makes me want to slap them.

Basically, the Judeo Christian church promotes the subordination of women--it glorfies the patriarchl world of men. If that is OK with you in this technological age, then go for it. If not, join a church that believes men and women should be treated as equals. I can't stand it when I see Christian women acting like the men are better or smarter. Men running our world has resulted in nothing but death and destruction. Let the girls play!

It is infuriating to read some of these comments not because I am a believer and feel offended cause I don't. The jokers that claim righteousness and try and apologetically prove the deity of Jesus and in the mean time figure out away to loose all credibility by using "retard" or "idiot." Its crap like that

Actually, the bible says he turned the nile river into blood. He parted the red sea. neither are connected to the other, except that each was moses' doing.

Yes, i agree: ignorance is a scary thing. ignorance is also borderline rude when one doesn't have their facts straight.

Something tells me you dont know much about the bible. it's also hard (impossible) to judge something one doens't even know anything about - that would just be racism (christianity isn't a race, but you'd get my point).

Being raised christian i can say that i hate christians (partly because i find them too ~fiendly~ also, the church that i go to is not the community i want to be part of and being forced to go their by the parents is not helping me like christians any more than i do)

Kay.

I wish I could say the Bible was a nice story, but it's full of brutallity, about a God people worship, even though he made people kill eachother to prove they loved him.

I wish I could say it was factual, at all, but there are too many unbelievale incidents in there, and besides, it contradicts itself way too often, which goes against it, since the ible is s'posed to be the word of God, and God makes no errors, so if God were to make errors, (which he does, I can point out at least one error on every page), then it would copmpletely defy the actuallity of God.

I wish I could say the Bible has helped to make people better people, by helping them follow rules so's they'll not hurt one-another... But, let's take a look at wars, Catholic priests and little boys, and of course, serial killers. What a coincidence that I found this page today, I'd just been reading up on serial killers, and I dound that near all of them were either in the belief they were obeying orders from God, or being controlled by demons. Now, I'll give an example. Fish, a cannibalistic child killer announced that he knew what he was doing wasnt wrong because otherwise an angel would've stopped him. Gein, the killer who inspired the characters Buffalo Bill, Norman Bates and Leatherface, was heavily influenced by the Bible and his mothers continuous ranting.

No, I'm not saying every evil is commited by God-believers, but I'm just pointing out that your ideas that the Bible makes you better people is bullsh*t.

And nor am I saying that there isn't a God. I believe there isn't, that doesnt mean there isn't. I'm just giving a few reasons as to why I do not believe, and why I wouldn't believe even if I saw any logic in the idea.

And also, I have not a problem with Christians, or people of any religion, until they get to this idea that 'Evolution is bs, Athiests are stupid and evil and will burn in hell, my belief is right, and no, I don't need proof, even though you do, because I have faith'.

I must admit, no one, not even myself can argue for or against religion without contradiction.

And I don't really believe in evolution either, though I understand it better than I do Christianity.

In fact, I'm a fallibilist. Athiesm isn't the belief in nothing, fallibilism is. Research it.

Xx, Ferret



P.s lol at above fight over who's IQ is higher. Mine's 187, think I win.

And, I leave with you a hilarious link to some truley ignorant Christians. No offense to those with brains, I'm sure you'll feel rather ashamed you share the same religion as these idiots.


http://bloggasm.com/hilarious-quotes-from-fundamentalist-christian-chat-rooms

When you are left alone and there is no one to hold your hand and you feel as though you would have killed yourself!! THEN!! When there is no hope, love, mercy and forgiveness left!! THEN!! When people start hating you, despise you and leave you!! THEN!! When your loved ones leave you and depart for another world or leave you alone! THEN!! WHEN YOU HAVE NO PEACE, AT ALL!! THEN ask YOURSELF, you'll get the answer, whose is holding your hand! Who is standing as a friend, as strength inside you, who is completing the YOU in you? And then you will know, how vast is God's love and how much he cares for you. Count your blessings before you curse!! May the Lord our God Jesus, bless you with all that you lack and give you peace and rest, fill your life with all joys and make you one of his special ones!! !!HAVE A NICE DAY!!!

You yourself have written 'ignorance is a scary thing', so how can you ignore the God who made you!! Reflect on that!!

Yeah, ok.... to EVERYONE, ok, what if God doesn't exist, then nothing would happen right? Christians would be wrong, but, what if some of you guys are wrong, and God does exist? What would happen? You would be judged wouldn't you? and were would you go?, I mean seriously, wouldn;t it be better to play safe?...Would you reallly risk yourself? ... I don't know, it;s just my opinion, but personally, I prefer to play safe :)

SO your saying that everyone should force themselves to believe something that they think is wrong just to play it safe? One what religion is true? how do we know the Hindu religion isn't true? should we believe in monotheism of polytheism just to play it safe?

Now if I were judging someone on what they believe I would judge them on why they believe. What evidence they have for their beliefs and what evidence they have against their beliefs and why they decided that the facts they have, or believe they have, for their beliefs outweigh the facts against it.

Bottom line is if you believe what you believe for the correct reasons then whatever it is any kind of god out there should accept it. And if they don't then its a f**king douche bag god that doesn't deserve being worshiped. It'd be like me saying worship and praise me or I'll torture you to death over 50 years of non-stop torture. Would you think that's fair, just, and wise? No

"How can you ignore the god that made you" you were trying to prove him to be ignorant and sh*t and then you use a line like that completely ignoring this little point...what if there isn't a god that made you? or does this god that created us really worth worship? if he made us to worship him he doesn't deserve it, he gave us no solid proof of his existence and expects everyone to follow him. Sounds like a mentally retarded god we have here to be honest. ignorance is a scary thing, and this worlds ignorance is the scariest of it all. The entire concept of god has caused more mayhem and destruction than anything else on this planet, yet we believe he looks after and cares for us. When your having your head sliced off for being a different religion then you can truly see how much this god cares for humanity. When you have been shunned by all your friends and family just because you are homosexual, then you can see what Christianity is truly doing, homosexuality isn't even a choice, hating someone for being gay is the exact same as killing someone because they are black. When someone else uses their religious beliefs to make you feel so bad about yourself that you end up committing suicide then you will realize what this "God" is doing to our planet. Whether he exists or not does not change the fact that he has been a plague to our planet since the first time someone thought of theism.

I'm not saying there is no chance in there being a god, I am saying there is no chance in there being a god that is worth worshiping.

That speech made me so depressed I wanted to kill myself. Please I have lost pretty much all respect in organized religions through those kind of retarded answers. Jesus mother f**king Christ, you just described someones life that sucks so bad that they are thinking of suicide. Where was that tosser you call god then huh?


God is a f**king useless c*nt that has destroyed the human population more effectively than we would have otherwise. If there was concept of a god we might finally accept gay people, if there were no concept of a god blacks wulda been freed a whole lot sooner, not instantly mind you them being the "colour of the devil" was one reason the white man thought he had superiority over blacks but not the only thing, abolishion to slavery would have come sooner, but it wuld still hav had to come as there was slavery for many more reasons than religion.

Dear tatorizzle (16773),

Indeed the questions that you have raised are very rational and important from all aspects but I would not go very deep into the spiritual and religious debate over this matter!
The reason for that is LOVE! You might have thought of me as an a*shole, a f*cking dumb idiot , who is blindly following a way of life told by a fanatic pope or a book which appears to be nothing more than simple mythology! Well, I would very certainly like to tell you certain things regarding this matter!
Firstly, God (and here I am referring to the Christian God, because you mentioned him specifically) does not hate gays! The living proof of that; am I! I am gay and I am attracted to men not to women! Does this simple thing changes the fact that I am a human being? No I does not, if God would have hated me; I had not been born and simply plenty of others; that are on this planet. The God whom you blame for being unjust and damned is the same who was ruthlessly killed by the same people in a different time period (200 years ago) which have caused trouble to you!

If people hate someone (or for example you) that does not means that God hates you! Every one shouted crucify him! But did he hate? No, he forgave them! Just because of the follies of humans you cannot decry God and call him a slove! There are plenty of things that we humans do, and indeed even you might be doing in your life. Take an example, if someone picks & swears at you: you would not look for God, but hit him and swear back on him! The same way he would not pray to God to save him from your wrath but he will also fight back! So after the brawl is over, you would go and say God is a mother f*cker, 'cause he did this to me!

Just tell me, does the above makes any sense? You have two very basic problems; firstly you are paranoid and secondly very hopeful. This simply means that you are afraid of the world and people around you (perhaps because of some tension or trauma they have given you or they do not accept you as who you are) and very hopeful that somehow things might get better if God would have done something, but he did not!

The life that I described in my previous post (of which you said, made you depressed) is of no one else, but mine. There was a time when I was just like you. Looking for answers, I even did advanced theological study of the non canonical books of Christianity and all other religions. But in the end I found only one thing and that was LOVE. Which freed me of the burden of explaining to others and leading my life the way I wanted to? I decided it's mine and I will do whatever I wish, if I hadn't lived my life the way I wanted it to be, so why should I live at all? All my worries were gone when the Bishop of my diocese (Salisbury) told me one thing that God loves us the way we are, that's why he made us like that. Had he not wished it, I had been straight, a chick hunter and bla %u2013bla! He [GOD] gave me a talent, so that I can use it for myself and His glory. And I am sure you also have been blessed with one! That's what He says- %u201Cyou are the salt & if salt loses its taste, with which thing it is to be salted? It's of no use, but to be thrown out and trampled upon by dogs and swine%u201D! Look, do not lose your salt (talents). Find it, discover it. And do not let people make you something which is of no use! Control your life yourself and live it the way you want it to.

You do not know; I originally hail from Iran, my entire family was nearly finished in an assassination by the so called god freak fanatic Muslims. I had seen people die like dogs, even worst! I lost everything and later I gained much more. I was desperate and despaired, but I kept faith, I left everything and came to England and settled here. I found myself with God and discovered who I am. Now, I am a good (I can say that) pianist and organist, I also make paintings, do modelling and bodybuilding. I am studying to become a cardiologist! Had I thrown my salt, I had been nothing but a dead body. God does works in mysterious ways and he is there to take care of you. He visibly himself does not works but through his people. If there are demoniacs who wish to kill you, so there are also Christians( and I mean the one's like myself, not the fundamentalist, stupid people who call themselves the followers of Jesus and do the exact opposite) who will come to save you and guard you! One example of such miracle might be this, that I am answering all your doubts! Perhaps Jesus is working via me and telling you, what you have asked for. Is this not a miracle that proves his existence!

There are times in life when we feel like killing ourselves, but once we see it the other way, it's all fine. I learnt this art of living & my life changed a lot. God does love me, that's why he planned these things for me.

You do not need a bishop or a preacher or you do not need a church, because God is neither a preacher nor a teacher; he's a reacher, he wishes to reach our hearts!

When you will hold the hands of your love next time, then you will realise how much God cared for you and gave you such a lovely and lovable life partner. When we love someone and when we celebrate that love, it's all God. God is love! You cannot see love (abstract) just like god but you cannot deny it! The proof of its existence is that we love someone in our lives. Had I been near you, I would have held you tightly in my arms, very tightly and would have held you that way for ever.

Even if you feel like that no one loves you! Remember that I do and God does through me (I suppose). I do not even know you or your age, sex, race and profession, but I feel a very strong bond with you, that's why I took time out to reply to you and never leave you alone!

Do not be despaired, life is beautiful, celebrate it do not think of killing yourself or the others. It will take time to overcome and control your life but once you have done it, you will be fine and at the end of your days (when you are 150 years old) you would reflect back and see! How incredible it had been.

Do forgive me! If I have offended you in any manner. I am not here to prove that you are wrong and I am right or not to tell you that do this or that. I just felt like giving you comfort, so I wrote. If I had done something wrong, I am sorry! God is with me; I do not need to prove it and may be sooner or later you too will feel his love within and without yourself! One more thing my this reply is not rational but emotional! Love ya!
Bye for now, take care!!
VIKY.

Reading through this post and the comments that came with it, the original poster brought up a valid point.

The Christian belief in God based on mythos in the bible is illogical, true, but as has been brought up, everyone has the right to believe what they believe and hate what they hate.

Alternatively, there are less hateful ways to say "I disagree with what you believe." and the ways discussed in this post and the comments above are childish and derogatory under the guise of logic and free speech.

Simply put, you guys are a bunch of babies. If something offends you, ignore it. If something sparks an interest in discussion, be civil. Basically, I'm seeing a bunch of namecalling and back-and-forth spats over who's right and who's wrong.

With that said, I'd like to point out that before I get set upon by the countless angry and disturbed, you are on the internet under a veil of anonymity. This is NO excuse to slam other people for their beliefs or creed. For example: Would you falsely yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre? No, you wouldn't (unless, y'know, you're in to that sorta thing.) and you really never should, again, be respectful and civil.

Hopefully this entire discussion can get turned from a huge flamewar to a pleasant and civil debate.

I have to say that is the best response I have ever gotten from any religious person before, the worst would be when one person showed me where it says god exists in the bible.

I got a bit carried away with my last reply, I'm sorry. One thing I've never understood is the salt reference, I live in the bible belt right now and I've seen many people wearing shirts that say "We are the salt of the earth" now the thing is salt makes the earth barren and lifeless, kills whatever is growing and prevents new life from forming, now I believe that that definition of it does suite humans more than any good meaning of it, seeing as we do destroy this earth.

Well I do not like the concept of organized religion, anything outside of organized religion I am willing to accept, the best theory that I have heard of was actually something a woman told me on world of warcraft, that all god is is a form of energy, different from the other religions that say god is energy, in the way that its energy is just basic enough for very very basic life, which then gets more complex, goes through evolution.

Well talking about the love thing, I was in love once and it f**king sucked, like seriously, then with the family love well I love my family but I feel kind of distant from my parents, they don't understand me in the slightest, they have no clue what makes me happy and they don't know much about me in general. though that is mainly my fault, I can't feel close to anyone unless they know certain things about me and accept it, problem is I've never told anyone in real life about those things, so I can't feel truly close to them.

I can not believe the god is love thing, look at most the world and you will see that most of it is filled with death, disease, corruption, destruction, torture, hate, famine, and many other things, and there are not that many places that are filled with love and happiness. You said you weer from Iran and that you saw people dying in terrible ways...where was the love then? I cannot respect a god that has power to stop something major like that and doesn't.


Whether or not god does exist or not doesn't change my views on organized religion, the bible could be 100% true and I still wouldn't like the whole concept of Christianity because of all the sh*t it has done to the world, and I do not like how religion makes death and all that sh*t seem...less tragic. Think about it, if someone dies and they've been good you will believe they have gone to heaven right? well that just makes the death easier, and that results in a loss of respect for life if death is just so easy. Now you shouldn't mope around all your life because your friend died, but neither should you just think that people are happier when dead and up in heaven. The middle path sounds good though. The death hits hard, makes you wish you never have to go through that again, or put anyone else through it, that gives a higher chance for you to respect life, but if you waste your whole life because one friend died then that is useless as you are dead inside, so instead of suffering one death you suffer two, theirs and your own.

Thank you for writing a well thought out and kind response after my insulting one.

have you not read my commentry? I can say that I have debated in a very civilised manner!

You haven't replied to my comment on yours! Are you angry with me?

I always thought that the bible used metaphor's. Anyways, certain things happen in a person's life that converts them to Christianity. For that reason I think they should have the choice to believe in whatever they please, and if it helps them be a better person, why not?

By the way anyone else notice that religion is a deal breaker? Most fights are started because of religion.

I'm an athiest. And while I strongly disagree with Christianity and dislike hearing ignorant comments such as, "God put dinosaur bones on Earth! If you test faith it gets stronger!" I can't say they don't have a right to believe so. It's their opnion.

Although I must agree with winterfresh(21111), religion is the cause of much violence. It's really an unnessecary hassle. I believe that religion is a way for some people to cope with the hardships of life. Of course, life can be hard, but everyone must suffer and it's really a matter of if you can take it or not.

i'm agnostic. i completely agree with you, except for the part of actually hating Christians. If you hate Christians, then you should hate Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhists, and every other religion. They all believe in things that they have little to know proof about. I put Atheists in there because for all you know, nothing is real and your next door neighbor made it up. That would make him God. You don't know. You just can't know. (Chances are, that's not true, but I'm just making a point.)

I don't hate any people who practice a religion. They have a belief and an opinion, and the way I say it, either only one belief is right, no belief is right, all beliefs are right, or some beliefs are right. So, meh. I'll just live my life to the fullest. Until I see God come down from the sky and tell me who's right, I'm not gonna worry too much about it.

ugh. I dont really beleive in that stuff either but you dont have to offend everyone who does! It just makes violence. Everybody has a right to beleive in what they want to.

You may not believe in it, or think it's stupid, but you shouldn't say that you "hate christians." You go to your heaven and they'll go to theirs. Maybe God doesn't show many miracles anymore because the number of believers is fading. Anyway, if you really hate christians you have some anger issues. If you think that christians are abysmally stupid about their *beliefs* think about the person believing these beliefs, not the beliefs. I admit some of things in the bible, and when I say some I mean two or three, are far fetched, but that doesn't mean the whole thing is a "kooky, ancient book." But the sweat socks comment was funny. Not the Moses part though. But I was kind of pouting when they made it the Egyptians that were bad.

the bible is mostly symbolism, and ALL religions share the SAME Prophecy and symbols of, look up "the truth..." on youtube

Explain thie to ME.. why do CHRISTIANS think feel that they have to discriminate against people that they dont agree with.. like GAYS for example?.. maybe she judges you people for the same reason you a**holes judge everyone else. It doesnt feel to good being judged huh.

I get where you are coming from.. with the not judging thing but I personally believe that people only learn not to discriminate when they finally get a taste of their own medicine.

How can YOU confirm that GOD created anything.. see once again a christian attempting to prove that they know-it-all. SO annoying.

Well I HAVE read the bible and as a woman .. it is an insult to the worst degree.I grew up in a very religious family and from the time i was able to finally think for myself I doubted its validity right away.

But at some point you must learn to think for yourself and even if you come to the conclusion in the end that you prefer to stick with your christian beliefs don't you think that you should use the brain that GOD gave you and make your own determination rather than accepting what your parents and others have told you because religion is nothing more than an embellishment of someone's distorted view of the world and it's creation no mnatter which religion your talking about.I question EVERYTHING because I believe that everything SHOULD be questioned including the existence of GOD .. ONLY A FOOLISH MAN DOESN'T ASK QUESTIONS.

I hate people who base the whole religion on a ignorant and dumb few.
Like that all Christians are dumb and delusional, All christians are prejudiced, All christians are intolerant of other people.

My bad, I haven't been on Is it normal in forever. Nah, I'm not angry with you.

what a stupid story, that poor desperate fool isn't to bright

Faith is a powerful thing its a feeling u get deep down inside that I didnt even understand until I was saved.

Why would anyone want to hate? Its such a sucky emotion. But I can gaurantee u that Christians love you :) It is our religion to love others

Being upset that someone u care about has just died is inevitable and because you believe they go to a better place does not mean that u dont respect there life if anything it means u respect them more than to just believe that thier dead body was buried in the ground and thats it. Do you believe in the soul?

Also God made people and people choose to sin. God gave us all choice. I used to wonder how God being so Good could make people so bad like hitler..etc. But God gave us all choice we all choose our decisions and the life we want to live. God does not simply want us to love him he wants us to choose to love him. I also wondered why bad things happen to good people I still wander about that but I belive the best explaination for this is one you can find in the Buddist religion and the ancient Essene religion and even in the Christian religion. The belief in past lives, that if we live good lives we will come back higher up on the "totem pole" but if we live extraordniary lives we are assended up into heaven so that we no longer have to go through the process of death. You know how they put Rest in Peace on Grave stones the Essene relion belives this refers to the sleep we undergo between lives.

Christians do not believe that you should discriminate against anyone you should love EVERYONE Gay people your enemy etc... God wants us to live our lives as an example of Love. In the bible it says that fornification is a sin. Fornification includes sex before marriage as well as Perverted thoughts and behaviors like incest and "homosexuality". However, homosexaulity is not so much looked at as a "lifestyle" but moreso as a sin that someone choses to continue to embrace in effect turning it into a lifestyle. I understand that homosexual people say that that is how they are and God made them that way. We all are born with our quirks some people are more inclined to steal, cheat, lie, etc.. but the problem comes when you choose to indulge in these behaviors without acknowledging that they are wrong.

Don't worry, with your non-beliefs you're not going to be part of God's blessing and all that. Won't even have to deal with it. But You might just burn in hell.

I just signed up to say, I hope that someone discovers a way of keeping you alive for all eternity, so that you can be endlessly tortured for making such a "Holy" statement.

right on man.
christians are annoying cos of thier sales pitch and how they, whenever you find conclusive proof to prove god dosent exist, just try to cover it up and get off topic

and lisha590? stop quoting gigantic paragraphs from the bible. this is an intenet forum, not a church service.

It's only a matter of belief.

If certain Atheists were to learn this "Big-Bang Theory," well, I have a question: "have you ALSO learned about being Well-Mannered during the course of your studies?" or atleast HEARD of the word "Courteousness?"

If you still want to rub your "Evidences" in our faces, it's fine, go ahead. But know what? WE GET IT. So LEAVE it. We've heard of it & you've known ours, so let it be. Everyone has excellent points to pursue, but you need not to call our belief such names when we dearly think the same way as you do towards our beliefs.

My point is, if we Christians don't believe in your concept of how the earth was made, or your point of view or whatsoever, let us be. Because I'm sure that you don't want to hear a word about our religion. You have your own believers don't you? So do your way as freely as you want & we'll do ours peacefully. & Don't call degoratory statements to our faith, as I said, It's only a matter of belief. No matter what you do, nobody'll give in 'nways.

Peace to Everyone.

With all due respect,
Me.ü

OMFGosh! Absolutly NO ONE studies religouns nowadays!!! You Christian hating f-u-c- |< tards don't even read the bible, or studie it! For one thing, In EGYPT Moses turned the Nile to blood. Escaping Egypt, MOSES PARTED THE YAM SUPH or , the REED sea. Everybody who translates Yam Suph from Hebrew to English translates it as the red sea! Secondly, I can take people not beliving, but when you talk smack about my whole family, most of the presidents of the U.S and leaders of other Nations, that makes me want to punch somebody in the face. STUDY Christianity FIRST before stating your opinion! Sorry for yelling

Jesus loves YOU. :)

and

many christians out there, pray for YOU.
and what i am telling you is the TRUTH.


ps. I pray that you could meet God, soon or later in your life.

you my good friend have hit a bee hive with a hocky stick. yes it is true the allmost all who believe in a religion are fools. but you should not hate them for it. they are weak. they have been sold lies to make them selfs feal better. I know the conferts of god and there are great. it takes a very strong will the brake free from any cult and you should never get violent with the weak. pitty them and try to make there crazy dilutional time on earth as happy as posable.

but do please try and keep crazys out of the gov't.

I don't hate Christians.
I hate their religion. It is normal.
As far as I can tell, what we call "god" is a sadistic being fabricated from lies, false hope, and dependence.

You can hate them, but they won't stop believing.
So let them be. If they come up to you and start pestering you, then do whatever you want. Shove some almighty evidence in their well-meaning faces or maybe punch them. Punch them HARD.
Ignorance is a scary thing. But depending on the situation, it can kill you or save you.

The bad and the good come with everything. Sometimes you get the bad only, sometimes you gte the good only, and thats what christians are, maybe ignorant, maybe unrealistic but they like beleiving in something all good because all bad truly exists and maybe beleiveing in something thats only good gives some hope and other purpose and meaning and there I think that however hopefully that is if you can beleive in it than do.

i think religion is bunch of made up crap. I don't hate christians with the exception of passionate christians. they try and try to convert people and have a I LOVE GOD sign where ever they go. They only like christian songs, read the book of crap they call a bible every night, and mumble meaningless sh*t everytime. When you pray, the answers are yes no and wait. You can't loose with that answer because one of those are bound to happen. Lets pray you will have a billion dollars. Not gonna happen. why? because praying don't do anything, duh.

Lol Im flattered that definitely wasnt a direct "quote" from the bible. And being that this is an internet forum shouldnt I be able to share ?

And quite freakly as a reply to ALL the athiest comments there is Nooo way you can speak on FAITH if you do not Have it. Study the bible all you want but if you dont have FAITH it means nothing. I may take your comments seriously if you did this first: Study the bible, learn about the bible, get ur questions about Christianity answered, do all this unbiasedly and with an open mind, & most importantly get FAITH.

If you want to know what I define as Faith just ask me.

I believe this is normal.
and really the only sane option

jus gotta believe in something totally wierd beyond this Earth. Like do u believe in aliens? maybe ghosts? or nothing?

I dunno i just think theres something totally crazy out there that goes beyond us hundreds of millions of years GOD. there is just sooooooooooo much we do not understand that there is a chance that GOD exists. Unless you believe that we are the only ones that exist in the entire universe and that Giraffes evolved in such a manner that they developed a rete mirabile to be able to drink water and regulate there blood pressure and created a sheath of skin in their lower limbs that works like a pilots g-suit so that their limbs dont explode under the tremendous pressure that their bodies create when they bend down to drink. pretty crazy giraffes

u know whats also crazy? we weren't the first to design rotary engines, the tinest rotation engine exists within every living organism to create energy. they are tiny molecules that actually produce torque. but it could be evolution, but maybe it could be intelligent design? meep.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2258763/posts

I read some quotes of our founding fathers that stated that they did not base the US on Christian beliefs. Even guys like John Adams pretty muched dissed the bible and God. they mention a "god" but it isnt the Christian God.
i dunno kinda creepy.

Here's Thomas Paine
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."

meep.

You are so totally WRONG - 'theos' is the ancient Greek word for 'God,' not 'belief.' Hence A-theism means no god. And it is a belief - a belief that there isn't a god. Just as the existence of god can't be proved, nor can his non-existence be proved. And NO - proving logically that a few parables in the torah are unrealistic does NOT amount to a death-blow to the concept of god...

If a person makes a leap of faith and embraces a religious doctrine, that is entirely different than IGNORANCE. Ignorance is the absence of knowledge. The question of spirituality is not concerned with which scientific equation is correct...which model of physics is used, Aristotelian, Newtonian or Einsteinian...but the average atheist seems to think it is. I see it again and again: to an atheist a religious person is just like a person who doesn't realize that atoms exist. Seems like a pretty easy to stroke one's own ego to me...

There are so many people on this blog who take the high road of 'superior' intellect in their attacks on Christianity. I especially find amusing the ones who use every possible shred of logical ammunition they can obtain, as if 'disproving' God's existence were some kind of scientific pursuit(WildChildTDC). Today there are particle physicists who are devout Roman Catholics. Isaac Newton, the father of modern science, was a devout Christian. He wasn't forced by the church to be a one; this was Europe post-Galileo. No burnings at the stake were taking place here...Newton just WANTED to be Christian! (and to invent calculus)

obviously you havent felt the peace that the holy spirit CAN give you. the only thing is you have to want it. maybe if you said a little prayer about something, anything that is bothering you, or if your in need, then the lord will hear you. you need to accept Him and experience God's glory. it a wonderful feeling. and yes faith does play a big part in living a christian life. it plays every part. quite frankly there is no christian out there that hasnt questioned the bible and its word. but basically jesus christ was OUR perfect sacrifice to save us from the stupid men that we are. even christians are stupid and we will admit it in church. we do stupid things, think stupid things, and say stupid things, but God forgives you. its all about faith baby. you gotta have it to make the walk your walking a whole lot better. and if you choose to believe something else then so be it, but you dont have to hate anybody for their beliefs. i can go on all day.....i feel sorry for you :(

ok guys have you ever thought that maybe it is a mix of science and religion. maybe aliens visited us(yes i believe intelligent life forms other than humans could have visited the earth) and the only way the ancient people could have described them is as gods. but like the pyramids the stones were cut so perfectly that a piece of paper could not fit in between the stones. there is a lot of evidence for this but it is still only a theory like atheism or Christianity. We truly have no idea how earth was created and even if we do figure it out i dont think everyone will believe even with all the evidence presented. most people dont appreciate me calling their gods aliens either

first post ever, just adding my two-cents worth:
all of the arguments against god (and no, i will not capitalize that word) are pretty much infallible. normally i stay out of the way of religious arguments, but this one really caught my eye, mostly due to an amusing fact.

when the religious posters realised their arguments weren't winning, they began to complain about how we wouldn't leave them alone.
well, then. let's go back a few centuries, shall we? back to a time when christians raped, pillaged and destroyed nations of people who didn't believe in god. how can you say people are persecuting you after the perverse things you have inflicted upon the rest of the world. it sickens me.
and yes, religion is the root of almost every war, aside from personal gain, which is tied into religion anyway. is it not personal gain upon which the whole worship god or go to hell idea is based upon anyway?
this point cannot be argued against, and do you know why? you're a human being, personal gain is imprinted into your very nature, each of the alleles that make up your genetic code.
thanks for listening to my rant. Vraid out:D

I see many sites about Christians and Atheists battling out truth, insults and mean words from both sides. Truth to one is a lie to another. If my truth can become your lie how can we any of us know truth?

I have heard an Atheist scientist say this is fact and a scientist who is a Christian say that is a lie. So how can a person who has not fully studied the subject of evolution and creation say this is what I believe to be true if the so-called experts call each other liars? If one even goes so far in study to become an expert what good is that for they see what they want.

What is truth?

A truth should unite and not divide. All divisive statements which cast doubt on someone's right to truth is a lie and all statements that unite one to another is truth. In its simplest form love is truth and hate is a lie. But a person without love can easily understand this to be false for they have no foundation to comprehend the meaning. So even here some will believe that love is false and hate is truth.

Is truth comprehension? I think therefore I know truth. How shallow is that! Billions of truths walking the earth saying this is what is because I know it. Some rising above the others in leadership of large groups, do many people banded together make truth, many people listening to Billy Graham or the many listening to Adolph Hitler each with their own truth? No, the masses do not know truth. The variables of one apply to the many.
%u201CBeauty is only skin deep,%u201D and so it is with truth. You can believe in a higher truth than humanity possesses who is God. Or you can believe in carbon dating and other facts of science. Both speak of the authority of their truth that makes it of greater value. That failing they move onto emotions and the one who yells the loudest has the greatest truth?

It has been said, %u201CThere is no meaning to be found in the world beyond what meaning we give to it.%u201D Is truth simply what we make it to be? The greater truths are known by the amount of feeling attached to them? Is truth not a fact but an emotion like love or hate? Is truth something to be felt and never known? Judging by the content of this and many others posts I would say, Yes%u201D. But of course anyone who is can say to me, %u201CNo.%u201D

how dare you say any of that! You haven't even read the bible and you think you can pass judgement!? only when you EVERYTHING about Christianity or as much as me at least being a practacing catholic then come back and say all that stuff again, if you would have read the bible, the stories told are for teaching, and provide just as much proof as you want! Christians are lovely people and are a community i am proud to say im apart of, and if it wasnt for christianity we probably wouldnt have piece in most western countries, aid support in most 3rd world countries and a place to go when all else fails!! but being a christian, i understand you dont really understand the basis of christianity so therefore forgive you, but next time i would prefer to hear a experts point of view, not yours

you should be either an motivational speaker, a priest, a preacher, or jst a wize old man! i really wana meet u man lol! u sound so full of wisdom

i so agree!!! It's quite moronic to think that way.

Your DISCUSTING.

a few thoughts...

Jesus is supposed to be this super humble guy right? How ridiculously pretentious is it to claim, or believe that you are the son of God?

The idea of Heaven and Hell is the most contrived thing I have ever heard of. If god is so almighty why would he use the same method that parents use to make their kids behave. ex.. "telling your kids that if they don't behave they will get a stocking full of coal for christmas."

The simplistic reasoning behind heaven and hell is a smoking gun. How can it be anything but a man-made instrument to gain control of humans?

I studied science and much of science has been able to prove a lot of the bible. Even a reason for the parting of the red sea. That said, most catholics are not taught to study the bible, because it can drive you batty. THen there are some religions that devote to much time to the study of it and it has been known to make mass murders. Religion is meant to be used as a moral guidepost and to many take it to drive others mad and use it for control purposes.

well then u hate half of the world!

Hahahaha you are in my mind dude I HATE CRISTAMS AND CRISTIANS i will see you in hell

I think that the only way anyone can ever accept christianity is by experiencing god for themselves. people have done the "god" talk for centries without much of a diffrence ever coming of it. if you truly dont belive in christianty think of problem you have in your life at the moment, pray about it every day for the next month asking for gods help in that situation. if nothing changes then you have a right to turn away. without evenin trying to experince what you dont belive in then you can only sepeculate and never know the real truth.

I am praying for you and all nonbelievers. It makes my heart sad to hear that, and I pray that you will open your heart to hear God when he speaks to you. That is the proof that each of us Christians have that we can't really give to others. We have our proof because we've heard the voice of God through unique avenues that God chooses to speak to us. When it happens to you I pray that you will listen and not shrug it off. It is real. When you realize it you will shout it to the mountain tops because it's an awesome feeling to come to understand and you'll want to share it with as many people as you can. I love you and hope to meet you in heaven. :)

It's all very simple, there is no God so why religion? It's just a bunch of made up stories for past generation that absolutely have no basis or fact, much less truth.

Ignoramus.

ok I am about to make a point...You call Chrisitans ignorant, but you are the one bad mouthing them?? That makes you of equally ignorant if you ask me. I am also a non-believer (Humanist to be exact) and think your just as ignorant as Christians. Accept that they believe and you don't but present FACTS and not accusations. No one knows if Moses actually did those things..NO ONE! Present better facts next time to uphold your argument other than basing your accusations on your sight on "reality"

I always have catholics knocking at my door asking about when i go to church or reciting things , yes its annoying but they dont mean to be! (or so they say...) I'm not gonna judge you on what you think and also some christians cant stand other religions thats just as bad!!!

I want to know why you feel he's twisted, maybe because he doesn't share the same belief as you?

He has a totally valid point any atheist could regurgitate for you on call - because it is all common sense

Read up on you Dawkins, Hitchens, even your Harris before you attack this non-believer personally; dick.

-Brent-

As we see here, this one particular story has attracted sooo many posts because of the highly controversial topic of religion. Most wars have started because of religion and people feel justified to kill in the name of it. We can see for example in this thread. So much hate and bickering over such an overated topic. Why do people get so emotional about it?? I think religion is harmful. I used to be mormon... Ohhhhh the stories I could tell. Come over to my house for coffee..

I agree with you partially.
i dont HATE christians. hate is a very strong word.
I think christian (and all religion) is a very misguided path of life.

There are only 2 major problems i have with religion.

Muslims scare me. i don hate them - but they do frighten me.

I f**kING HATE CATHOLOCISM.
Bunch of f**king bastards.

(btw i live in ireland, so i know more about catholocism then most of you. i have been bought up with that evil way of life.)

I'm agnostic which means I'm not an Atheist and I'm not a Christian I'm sorta in between. I believe in what Jesus believed in like be kind to your neighbor, have manners and everything else, but when like Jesus turned water into wine, nah that is crap and sh*t. That's false, and I can't believe people waste 6 hours of their sunday just to hear sh*t from a book that was written by munks. People shouldn't base their life around stuff like that I mean COME ON IT'S THE 21ST CENTURY!

i am totally against you i dont understand how you could hate getting presents !its normal but try to enjoy it this year. knowing that someone hates christmas is really quite sad and i feel sorry for you .

I don't mind some Christians. The ones who blindly follow their religion and take everything in the bible literally are the ones who piss me off. I was reading a Christian movie review site, and I was getting livid at their review for "Ponyo" (you know, the Studio Ghibli film about the fish girl?) Anyway they were giving it a horrible review because of "magic". OH TEH NOES! Oh, and they said it was evil because it supported the theory of evolution. Those christians are the ones I hate. I applaud the Christians that don't use their religion to try to "convert" others. They are involved with religion cause it makes them feel more peaceful, and they don't feel like every single person needs to be Christian to be happy.

I don't hate Christians/Christianity. I hate stupid morons like the person who started this thread.

What does a stupid moron like you know about "reality"?

Reality check you spastic - whatever you believe to be "reality" in the end it also has an element of 'faith' to it.

agreed

We all will make our maker one day. Have you asked how humans got here? we know Darwin was wrong and by the end he didn't believe in his theory either. no need to get all crazy about it dude, I can worship and who I want and don't need idiots like you brand me or generalize me.

I'm an atheist as well, but you're certainly coming off as a jerk with your posts.

jesus is god
god dont take revenges -.-

i totally agree with you by the way

I don't follow complete Christian beliefs. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus. I find it hard to believe some stories, but in my mind, I just know that's what I believe. I believe in re-incarnation which I know a lot of people don't, but I find it hard to believe everything goes black, that's it. I believe in Heaven, though I do not believe in Hell. I think differently to others.

I think that people have a right to believe in what they believe in. If you don;t think that's what happened, that's okay, if someone tries and tells you "IT'S REAL, IT'S ALL REAL!" Then you have a right to be angry, but perhaps you should let them think what they think, it's their right.

I'm not telling you to believe in it, I wouldn't do that, but I'm just saying I do, and so do others, whilst others, like you, don't. But it's fair to let people have an opinion. You have yours, I have mine.

Darwin didn't convert, dickfaces.

I agree with jesus(8013)
keep your nasty opinions to yourself.
Burn in hell a**hole.

I think Muslims are far more "out there" then christians or jews, but that's just my opinion though.

Actually since you mention Moses I am taking an Ancient Civilization class in college right now and it's funny because we were talking about this great tidal wave that wiped out the island of Crete suppossedly and the teacher mentioned some people believe this is when Moses and the chosen people crossed the sea.

I really don't know what to believe but historically the Bible is pretty accurate. I know Hebrews mostly wrote the Bible, but faith is not just something that can be taken for granted, it is as real as love or hate.

well considering that the bible also says you're supposed to love everyone, even 'sinners' than you calling someone a dumbass is certainly going agaisnt your own beleifs. also, the bible constantly talks about how no one but god can decide who is condemed and who is saved, so you have no place to say that another person will go to hell. by doing so you are trying to play the role of god, which is blasphemy, and blasphemy is also is also a sin, just as not beleiveing in god is. I personally do not aprove of christianity/God becouse i think it is one of the biggest roots of evil and cruelty , and i believe religion is the most dangerous weapon known to man. but even so, i choose to actually read up on other people's beleifs and customs and accept them for who they are, rather than bash them down for it. i think it's great that you have something you feel passionate about. we all need something to beleive in weather it be a religion, a better tomorrow, or even love. so don't beat somone down for what they beleive in.
-peace

thank you for making sense and accepting other people, rather than bashing them down for not beleiving exactly what you beleive. it gives me hope that maybe humanity isn't as hateful as we play ourselves out to be.

If you are a true christian than you would love other people the same no matter what their beliefs are.

But i dont think you have to be a christian to have this view, personal values are more important than a religion.

I am not christian but my whole family is and the reason i initially did not want to be christian is that i found that some christians are hypocrites, some worse than non-christians, but believing that god loves them makes them feel like they can continue being hypocrites.

Since then i have stopped believing that there is a god but that does not mean that i believe in the big bang, although some people automatically jump to this conclusion, that is not the case.

I honestly believe that we will never find out what the correct belief is but i am highly positive that religion is not it.

Think of it this way, if you are a product of something, the thing that created you is obvously too complex for you to understand seeing as it created everything we know. Whatever it is, did not just create people, it created every matter known and unknown to man.

You would have to exist outside of our reality to be able to understand what it is that created us. Then comes the problem that if that created us what created IT?

And this will never be answered. If everything was created by something then there was never nothing, but there must have been nothing for there to then be something, right?

It just doesnt add up.

Think people. Don't take things you are told as fact. Think for yourself. I am not asking you to believe me, only asking you to take everything into consideration before making up your mind.

I believe the scientists persuing the answer is a good thing as it helps us to understand as much as we can about everything in the process, but i do believe we will hit a brick wall.

thanks for reading and i am happy to read any replies whether they agree or disagree.

tony

i've had it up to here with christianity. the ethical tenets are adrmirable, but the magic show is pathetic.

Everyone, whether they realize it or not, is living their life day to day based off of faith. Faith is defined as "belief that is not based on proof." How is your faith not to believe any different than my faith to believe? I mean technically, whatever choices we make, we are taking a leap of faith. Getting in the car to drive is assuming, or having faith, that the breaks are going to work when you need to stop. Putting your clothes out before bed for the next morning is having faith that you are going to wake up. Choosing not to believe in God is having faith that there is no God and that you don't have to worry about all that silly nonsense about being saved and heaven and hell. Your faith, you think, is your saving grace against something that could be the truth. Why are you using it as a crutch? God tells us to have FAITH because He knew that there would be claims against His existence, identity and power. However, since there is no proof, what shall we do then? There are many arguments for both sides so perhaps some serious studying or research for BOTH sides would be beneficial. If you are looking for why God doesn't exist, you are going to find reasons why God couldn't possibly exist. If you are looking for the opposite, you can find the opposite. However, there must be an absolute truth. So which is it? Why not look at some FACTS that make up certain theories? Even if a theory is only a theory, it still holds some facts. Historically, the bible is extremely accurate. Every prophecy in the old testament came true in the new testament. Why not do what God says in the bible when He says "If you seek me with all of your heart and you will find me." If you truly want to know if there is a God, seek Him and ask Him. BUT, thats when it comes down to another question: Do you truly want to know if there is a God or are you afraid of what to do once you find out the real truth? Why couldn't God use Moses to part the red sea if He wanted to? I'm pretty sure that if there was a God, He could use such miracles to show His power. TO THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO LISTEN. If you have closed off your heart though, it may seem impossible. Why is that so hard to believe when the Big Bang theory holds that EVERYTHING came from absolutely NOTHING? Hmmm. I'm just not so sure about that. And, "just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true." I could say that back to you, as well. It doesn't NECESSARILY mean anyone is ignorant, it simply means that one of the 2 of us is misinformed, uneducated, unaware, or unwilling to learn, seek, or accept the truth for whatever reasons we may have. And to answer your question: If you are not a believer, it absolutely normal to hate Christians. Jesus said "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you." Your faith in not believing God's word and hating those who do is actually fueling our faith and reminding us that Jesus has told us everything in the bible that we need to know.

Speaking your beliefs is fine... but openly insulting other people for their beliefs is definitely not fine. I would say that hating Christians is definitely not normal considering the entire Christian religion is based on serving others, and making the world a better place. Sorry to rain on your parade.

im agnostic.. soo yea i think its totally normal to hate christians.. they always act like there soo much better then us just bc we have different beliefs than them..

Wow. Love the debate. Anyway... I think about 99% of the bible is crap but I always say a prayer at night. I really should be atheist, but I don't wanna be f**ked and go to hell if I'm wrong :D

Sorry god. If you exist.

When I have time, I will write on this one but not yet. I need to think about what to write first. I could be like a few others and make a mess but I want to do something needed and add intelligent thinking here.

You're an idiot. Christians (and all religious people) are stupid people, but, for the most part, they mean well. Hating the stupid is something stupid (but enlightened) people do. We are born with a certain intellect that cannot be improved. The same thing applies for ugly people and for people born into religon. It cannot be helped, and telling them they're stupid is both a waste of time and an expression of ironic enlightened ignorance. Sure you see through the faults of the bible, but your comprehension of human life and society is a joke. You lose. Good day sir.