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Is it normal for a brother to masturbate spying on his little sister?
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My niece confided the following to me:

She is 11, her brother 16(which, for the record, means soft alcoholic drinks are legal for him). One time, a while ago, when she was up late watching TV secretly in her room, she heared the house door, and assuming the parents came home, turned off the TV and pretended to sleep.
It was her brother that came home, though, and entered her room, smelling like beer. She thought he just checked on her, but when he stayed, she glimpsed for a moment and saw he was masturbating. She pretended to stay asleep, and he carefully took away the blanket and lifted her nighty to "expose" her vagina. She just "froze" and kept "sleeping" out of confusion, and he ejaculated on her belly, then put the blanket back and left.
After that, she stayed up, partly because she was afraid, the next few times when he went out again. Irregulary, the procedure would repeat.
Eventually, she confronted him and he kept apologizing and asking her not to tell their parents. He explained that it was not about her, but he never had a girlfriend, and seeing a real "pussy", even from someone much younger, just was such a turn-on that after he first had this drunken idea, he couldn't stop himself. He promised to stop but asked her to show him voluntarily, along the lines of "he'll teach her to masturbate, too, if she lets him see".
Is such behaviour normal for a older brother? I don't want to interfere in my sisters family, but it seems a bit weird to me, i mean, i understand he prefers seeing a real "pussy" to porno movies, but isn't he a bit old for "doctor games"?
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Comments (35)
I understand this because when i was 19 my sis "12" accidentally walked in and caught me masturbating on holiday in a room we had to share. I convinced her not to tell anybody because nobody would believe her. also got her to pull up her nightie and show me her cunny........legs spread open. humped and came over her butt cheeks many times, but nothing else. got to see neighbours daughters (10) pussy on same hol!!!! magic
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thats just...sick...and you wernt even drunk!
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Perfect,timing for him I can't imagine jerking off alone and end up blowing my load on a 12 year old ass after doing her
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Yes, this is normal. I'm 17 and have got a really cute step sis 12 who I was dying to see her little pussy. When she first started sleeping over I used to walk about in my boxers I with a semi or stiffy so he would stare. Sometimes I might see her mound through her nightshirt.

ON holiday we had to share la room with twin beds. One morning I was lying there jacking off while she was sleeping. I knew she'd wake and see me. That's what I did!!! Got her to show me her pussy -lovely !! It is normal. Spied on girl next door 9 changing for the pool and had a wicked masturbate.

Best and most daring was one day at my mum's surgery. She's a dentist and sometimes kids have gas if their having teeth pulled. beautiful girl about 12/13 with long dark hair and slim body. After college one day I was at the surgery and saw her in the recovery room while the nurse went to the loo. Went in the room, hand between her legs and pulled aside her panties to see her pussy......YUM. Went to the loo myself to jack off sniffing my fingers :-))))
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Noo :s I'm Sorry. Id say no. :|
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What the fuck?! That's really disturbing and not normal at all.

He clearly is a pedo/future pedo in the making. He needs help. I hop she didn't agree to his strange deal. You really should tell someone!
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So I and my sister have about the same age difference and I didn't think about it that much. It didn't stop me from having some curiosity about her body since she was the only girl I spent much time with. For most of my life she was just "my sister" not "my little sister" if you know what I mean.

I hasten to add that the worst I ever did was look up her shorts or down her shirt occasionally when the opportunity presented itself. We never did anything overtly sexually, consensually or otherwise. But I suspect that might well have been true even if our ages had been closer.
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Honestly I was willing to give they guy a pass up until the end. The fact that he offered to teach her, means he needs help. Confront him, and don't tell the parents. Tell him you think he should think counseling. Warn him that if he ever pulls something like that again you will tell the parents.
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This one is quite interesting. In reality society wants me to say bad, tell them to stop it, its wrong, and other sorts of negative reactions to it.

But...and this is highly variable on lots of reasons, is it harming anyone?

If the soft drinking age in your country is 16, that means there are some other values/morals/regulations/societal overtones that are different from a majority of American readers. Good, that covers the basis for what I'm about to ask.

Is your family close? I can deduce that if your niece is talking to you that you are close with her. But are the siblings close to each other? Are you close with your sister? A tight knit family has different levels of acceptance than a family thats far apart. (stating the obvious I know)

Ask her how SHE feels about it. Naturally teenagers experiment with each other. Sometimes that involves friends. Sometimes that involves family. I messed around with my boy cousin when I was 16, and later when I was older with a different cousin when he was 16. In my case it was simply a matter of being asked "want to try it?" So if your niece is having second thoughts it may be a bad idea. On the other hand, if shes at least a little interested, it might be something to encourage.

(Waits for anger gasp) ... Ok. Once you get her feelings towards it, you can translate those for your nephew. Explain to them that kids experiment. Explain to them that it isn't entirely normal, but that it does happen. I mean the reality of it is simple...would you rather them learning with each other, or learning with who knows how many people that aren't family? I'd assume they'd be each others first...so that leaves some certainty about not being diseased or catching anything right? (Waits for another anger gasp)

The most concerning aspect of this is the involved alcohol. Regardless of how she feels about the situation (for it to learn, or against it) he should not be doing anything remotely near her with any type of alcohol in him. This is the one you should get him to promise on. What happens if he gets angry at her, knowing he cant touch her? Would it stop at just messing with her while she was "asleep" or would he turn violent? Are you sure in your answer?

Encourage her to make up her own mind. She's old enough. And encourage him to respect whatever choice she makes. Including leaving alcohol out of it entirely. He needs to set an example. Being safe in experiment questions in one thing. Coming home drunk and forcing himself on her, is entirely different. (hopefully you get what I'm saying its late)

In a nutshell...or summary...whatever you want to call it. Sit them down, explain things to them, when it comes to sister and drinking he is forbidden (and as an uncle(assuming)) if he drinks and is around his sister, you have the right to kick his ass. And whatever she chooses is going to be the gospel. Meaning all parties respect her wishes.
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I am her aunt, and yes, our family is rather close. I'm her confidant, and much stuff that she feels unsure about(school problems, crushes, wishes...) she rather talks to me about, rather than her parents(as i'm more of a older friend to her rather than a authority figure in the classic sense)

I don't really intend to encourage them on this, simply because i don't know how far that would go. With 11 or 12 just looking and touching was rather exciting enough, when i was that age...with 16, i suppose he's ultimately looking for more. And i would not want him to talk her into incest, simply because she'd be available and he wants to experience his first time.

I already considered asking one of my friends to "take care" of my nephew, initiate him, so to say, in hope of him losing interest in his sister. But that would feel like rewarding him, which would make me feel weird.

Same for my niece, she asked quite a few questions about masturbation(in a childlike, innocent way) after talking to me about that. If it wouldn't feel utterly wrong, i'd "teach" her myself just so she doesn't ask her brother. Either way, i already told her, in a "making fun of it"-way that i wonder how her brother would even want to teach her if he never was with a girl...which gave us a nice laugh and hopefully sways her away from it.

The thing is, while i TRY to be neutral and interfere as little as possible, i highly doubt i'd like the direction this would take. While it _MAY_ be innocent child-play and first experiences that come at a little later age, i assume its a minefield.
One thing goes wrong, we have a serious family problem, best not go there. I mean, it's dangerous already, she started having her period a few month back. What if he had ever drunkenly decided to not ejaculate on her lower belly, but rather directly on her vagina?

I truly thank you for your input on this. I think i see what you are trying to say, but some parts of it go beyond what i could accept with a good conscience. I agree that a main problem is the alcohol, and i WILL make sure he respect her choice.
I would also like to "encourage her to make up her own mind", however, to allow for that, i have to BE a counterweight to her brother, who obviously tries to get her to decide for his suggestion.

On a side note, i arranged for both of them to stay at my place on the weekend(and her parents out of town), and i plan on bringing this to the table, possibly with my nephew alone(wouldn't want to break the trust my niece puts into me openly, and i'm afraid she won't understand that as a necessity.), and tell him to stop those nightly visits, for good and real, or his parents will be the least he has to worry about.
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I have to play devil's advocate. I do it more so on questions pertaining to gut-wrench reactions involving sex. In my short time on earth I've had opportunities to see all sides of this type of question.

While in college I had two different people tell me about having family orgies. They were initiated around 8, and expected the same for the own children. One had a choice in the matter, the other was forced. Interestingly they shared the same idea on how-to with their future kids.

I also met a pair of sisters (both of them were in their mid 30's at the time) that were pretty heavily abused. One came out relatively normal (considering they were locked in a dog cage and fed dog food for 4 years) while the other was a depressed bipolar alcoholic. So variation even within the same family unit.

My mom was telling me once about her growing up. Living in a family with 6 brothers and sisters apparently meant for them to do things with each other. She never went into much detail, but said she was around 18 when they finally stopped with her.

The point is every family is different, and everyone is different. You've filled in some missing information and I'm less likely to recommend encouraging it now. I think talking to them is best, and doing it with him first is a great idea. You have the best idea about their personality.

It certainly sounds like she's becoming a teenager fast. My parents were never...very open with anything involving sex. It was never talked about, and the body was something to be ashamed of. Maybe you should teach her. You made a good point about her not reaching out to him for answers. The spark has been lit, its a matter of time now before it grows to something else. Again though, thats being more of a hippie "just go for it." You know her best, so if it seems shes starting to get aggressive in her questions, maybe thats the sign to teach her? (not a female so I have no idea on this one.)

As for him...you have a friend that would help him...thats kinda funny. Makes me slightly jealous. I guess as far as a plan B goes, thats pretty good.

You know them better than anyone on here, so just follow your heart. The family dynamic will change with teenagers anyway. Having a close relative as a sounding board will do her wonders.
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I'm kind of surprised I didn't throw up reading this.

First of all, no, it's definitely not normal.
Second of all, this kid is clearly a future pedophile - if he isn't considered one already, of course.
And really, why would you even be compelled to ask? Isn't it blatantly obvious that this kid needs to get the living shit kicked out of him?

Tell the parents immediately. Please.
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@: True
I feel compelled to ask because i am unsure of which age difference is normal for this.
Me and my sister are closer age-wise, and i know we did some doctor games around her age.

What i mean to say: If that same motivation would be ok if they are 11 and 13, i don't know if it's just unusual or already abnormal with a greater age difference between them.
I know i did many "crazy" things during puberty, and so did some friends, therefore i feel compelled to ask for other peoples input on this.

Thank you for yours.
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I do not think that's normal. Brothers should know better than to do that, especially at 16. I do not think you should allow that to continue, because if it does, it might escalate to something more than just looking. That is my opinion, take it or leave it.
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I gladly take it, as your opinion is rather the same as my own. But then, i never WAS a boy his age, so have no idea how well he should know/have himself under control, especially after drinking.
Thanks for your input.
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You're welcome.
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*Brothers should know better than to do that, especially at 16, even if they are drunk.
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I find it appalling to see just how tolerant and downright complacent people have become regarding matters like these.

Again, this is clearly molestation, and by your own account it involved more than just touching.
And AGAIN, how would you like it if this was your daughter?
Are you truly concerned with her feelings here?
Aren't you concerned about what your nephew might become? He's probably going to find himself in prison one of these days for something much worse.

GET IT??? IS THIS STARTING TO SINK IN NOW??? Seriously, is there something I'm missing here?

All I can say is that this nephew of yours should be glad that I don't have a say in the matter. I'd tear him to pieces and never look back.
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@: True
It's not about becoming complacent or overly tolerant.

I see you fail to use the reply function, possibly because you just keep on ranting instead of even trying to respond to specific parts of what i write?

When me and my sis were teenagers, our cousin broke his arm, falling from a tree when trying to spy on us in the bathroom. We were all 13-15, and it was actually more of a good laugh than anybody blaming anybody.

You seem to fail to understand WHAT puzzled me here. So let me rephrase that: I _KNOW_ that what he did was wrong, and also already wrote i will make him stop that, if necessary. The question was mainly in regards to wether the age difference is normal.
If a 11 year old and a 12 year old fool around, thats normal and healthy behaviour. If a 14 and 16 year old fool around, thats also normal behaivour. I can only assume that out of availability here it's 16 and 11. The question was insofar THIS is normal. I know me and my sibling experimented a bit, but were closer in age, i know of other people who experimented with their siblings, but also closer in age.

The unknown factor for me here, is wether the age difference is too high to see this as fooling around.

The reason i will not talk her into feeling molested is BECAUSE i care about her feelings. I already told you how i would feel if she was my daughter.
I _AM_ concerned for my nephew, which is basically WHY i asked if this is normal. I do _NOT_ share your believe he'd find himself in prison for something worse.

As said, i don't know where you are from and wether you are trying to apply local morals or law to this, but do understand that my niece could, if she wanted, be sexually active with a boy up to 14 years old without any repercussions for either. The relative "liberty" of the law in that regard makes it a bit difficult to categorize this as molestation, especially if he's drunk.

The part you are missing is that i fully understand the situation, but i neither:

1.: Want my niece to become mentally damaged because people tell her she was molested and her brother is a would-be rapist she should never talk with again.
For siblings, they are very nice to one another, and she's a cheerful child. I will not destroy either for sake of morality.

2.: Want my family to break apart in ways, which would include involving law or social services in the process, neither cause too intense problems for my nephew as long as he didn't do more than that. I am aware you would call the firing squad, but i am more willing to forgive. If he had forced her to do anything, that would be a whole different story!
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"I do _NOT_ share your believe he'd find himself in prison for something worse."

Child molesters tend to end up in prison. At least where I'm from.

And indeed, the most disturbing aspect of this case is the age difference. It would've been one thing (although far from okay) if she were his age. But she's eleven, dammit! Eleven!
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Yes, i understand him too. It's normal. When I was about 15 my little sister was 10. We would dry hump a lot, all the time! That lead to us dry humping in underwear only and lead to no underwear (no penetration) humping. Until finall I got horny enough one day and asked her to let me anal her she laid down on the bed and I was able to work my dick into her. Got it all in and yes she was crying about it but i talked her into letting me finish. Got her to let me anal her 5 or 6 more times after that, full penetration and until cumming. Didnt mess either of us up. We are both adults now and actually close not in an incest way but cool. Its normal to want to see a girl naked and touch even if she is your sister, she's actually your best shot at seeing one growing up.
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No-one got hurt. Don't make a big deal out of stuff and drag up the past. She could have told someone at the time but chose not to.
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The problem is that it's not about dragging up the past. Maybe i misworded it, but this is "ongoing". In a different way, but not over. She confronted him last week, after that happened again, which is also when he put up the offer, and she talked to me last weekend.

"She could have told someone at the time but chose not to."
You are aware that this exact sentence is also true for most victims of rape by family members? Just saying....just because you don't tell someone inmediately does not mean it doesn't need to be talked about.

As said, i am even undecided as to wether it's a normal thing, however unusual due to higher age difference, or if it's abnormal, but i definitely don't want to "downplay" it like that. Thank you though for commenting.
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.....Btw, have you noticed the normalcy rating of this entry, ma'am? I think that says plenty, especially considering that this site is frequented by the some of the most deviant people imaginable.

Anyway, feel free to send my regards. And please consider what I said; I assure you that I am trying to help.
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@: True
I know you are, otherwise i would not have "put up" with your very emotional way of discussing- and i thank you for your input as well, even if i don't agree on everything.

As for the normalcy, well, i even stated there that i find it "weird", but i never was a pubertating boy, and don't know WHAT kind of "weird shit" those pull off, forgive my language. I had suspected, but was not sure, and i don't want to go tell my nephew it's not normal what he's doing when possibly it is...understand what i mean?
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NO it is NOT normal... which is evidenced by the fact that there are LAWS against it. Take my word for it, if no action is taken it will really mess up her understanding of sex and relationships when she is older. My brother (who was only a year and a half older than I am) instigated this sort of behavior with me. Since I was compliant, he then decided to have some of his friends join in on the "fun." I never had anyone to talk to that I felt I could trust, but your niece obviously knows something is wrong and is very scared. I feel that as an adult that she has come to for help you have an OBLIGATION to do anything you can to stop this behavior. I'm 36 years old now, and am still in therapy having to deal with the repercussions of what happened to me! Don't make her have to go through that, please.
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i have a few things to ask and say.


1.why are you not telling the parents yet your telling pretty much about 80% of earth's population by posting on web?

2.tell the damn police!

3.tell the damn parents!

4.dont gimme that "i dont wanna hurt anybodies feelings" crap...cuz it will hurt more to not talk about it that it will if you do.

5.this isnt somthing to ask people on the interwebs.
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Old, but how disturbing. Doesnt matter if it was 11-16 or 11-12.... both are old enough to know thats just weird. Future pedophiles and incestry...that "doctor" game you people keep mentioning.. you need help... i feel so digusted after reading this... how the hell did i find this. Not normal AT ALL. If i caught my kids doing this, as an adult, i would stop it right away. Especially a brother and a sister? Ugh
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Yes, very normal. And nearly always the brother likes younger sister/girls. It's a real turn on
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With all due respect, I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you're sounding now.

This young lady was molested. Repeatedly.

Do I have to fucking spell it out for you? How do you think her parents would feel about this? How would you like it if it was YOUR daughter? Your attitude regarding this issue is absolutely revolting and to be totally honest, you sound like a very bad aunt.

Either turn him into the cops or allow the family to punish him in whatever way they see fit.
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@: True
I never said it's okay. Yes, you are right, technically it was molestation. But to me, there's still a difference between someone that stealthily tries to sneak a peek, and someone that uses authority or force to do so. To me, what he did falls more under the first, he seemed to believe no one would find out and she would never know, which suggests to me that he is AWARE he was doing something wrong, but never wanted to "hurt" her, or give her any bad memories or stuff. Doesn't make it more right, but the intent is a whole lot different than in classic molestation.

As said, my main problem stems from the fact that my biggest issue with this is the age difference. If he was 12 years old, and caught his sister sleeping nude, getting an erection on his first sight of real female sex parts and decided to masturbate right then and there, i'd rather find it a funny story, especially if he's busted. That would be doctors play and mostly every psychologist would tell you thats normal.

He is older, but not all children and teenagers are at the same "level" at the same age. Which does, even if you don't understand this, make me insecure about it.

I know their parents would be rather shocked, naturally, and probably ground him, take away his pocket money for quite a while, etc...but i'm worried about a permanent "problem" in the family, such as them never leaving the kids alone again for fear of something happening, etc...
If it was my daughter, i would react mostly the same, except the threats i will give him if i talk with him would be more graphic, most likely.

My attitude towards this topic is that i want to stop it, as regardless of wether it's normal or not, it's a dangerous and unhealthy direction, in MY eyes. If the lack of severity or my unwillingness to call the cops to separate my family is revolting to you and makes me a bad aunt, i'll try and live with that.

Besides, that won't even do much good, while he is 2 years too old for this to be legal(age of consent is 14, or a maximum of 3 years age difference if one partner younger than 14), he didn't do very much(before you call me stupid again: i am referring to the fact he did NOT have sex with her, did NOT force her to anything, did not touch her or have her touch him, did not show her stuff, ...). So ya, most likely, he'd get a parole thingie inmediately(meaning he is sentenced to, say, 1 or 2 month of youth prison, but only has to go IF he messes something up again in the next 3-5 years), IF the judge decides it was deviant enough to warrant even that, which is unlikely as his sister generally likes him, and doesn't exactly feel "molested".

And before you go on about that: No, i will not TALK her into feeling molested. If she can pass this off as a early sexplay experience, i will NOT talk her into having a serious problem with this that will FOREVER damage the relation with her brother and make her need to see a shrink before being able to fall in love with a partner.
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No, that would not have been "funny" in the slightest. Ask anybody; I'm sure they would agree with me.
And the fact that you would say such a thing suggests that the entire family is probably dysfunctional. Perhaps there has been a history of stuff like this? Yeah, that sounds about right.

Your nephew came all over an eleven-year-old. Are you in denial, or are you just incredibly stupid?
I would have been inclined to say that it's mostly the latter; however, this quote leads me to believe that that might not be the case:

"If it was my daughter, i would react mostly the same, except the threats i will give him if i talk with him would be more graphic, most likely."

In other words, you DO seem to realize the severity of the situation. So.....just why are you being so weird about this?
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@: True
since it is an emotional and sensible topic, i'll just ignore your insults and not address them.

As for "funny", what, you NEVER fooled around in any way when you were young? I barely know anybody(friends, colleagues, etc.) that did not engage in some sex play when they were young, mostly only with close friends, siblings, or, mostly, cousins, at ages below 14. The WHAT ranged from "see and show" over mutual masturbation to full-fledged attempts of intercourse.

Sooner or later children grow aware of their awakening sexuality, and then they look for experiences and answers. They are not "asexual" until they are 18(or whatever age of consent is in your country), then BANG, they are sexual beings.

Again, you ignore the _CORE_ essence of the whole thing. I already KNOW, and knew before writing here, that i don't want something like this to continue. I KNEW that what happened was not ok. I KNEW i would try to stop this.

The QUESTION i meant to ask was NOT so much in regards to the action itself, but more in regards to the age difference. And you are _NOT_ helping with that, as you seem to consider all gathering of sexual experiences between children as annatural and wrong, regardless of their age difference.

Also, you advocate severe actions. Fine, your standpoint. I want to help BOTH of them, my nephew as much as my niece. I don't want to help one and kick the other around on the floor. I want BOTH of them to be okay. For you, he's obviously beyond redemption, a view i simply don't share, as weird as that may sound to you, but he's as much a family member to me as my niece is. She told me more in a curious and shy way, not in a hurt and afraid way. Therefore i also don't see a reason to make this experience into a trauma for her when it WAS not. Why damage her fragile pubertating mind when there was no reason? So she can hate her brother? Be afraid of man? I am weird about this because sometimes insisting on justice being dealt to the letter of the law will do more damage than the crime itself.
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Regarding your first question.....do you honestly not see the difference between the two?
This is a case of a 16-year-old - an adult, for all practical purposes (in a sense, at least) doing his business all over his much-too-young sister. Get it?

You say that you would like to help your nephew as well as your niece. Good. But please, ma'am, hear this: You must truly awaken to the severity of the whole situation. If you would really like to help your nephew, make it clear that this is absolutely unacceptable. Fill him in on the facts regarding matters like these. And lastly and most importantly, let him know that if he keeps this up, there's an excellent chance that he'll find himself in prison, where he'll soon enough know all too well how people like your niece feel at times like this. ;)
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@: True
I see a difference, the question was how FAR of a difference it is. Now, if he was a 21 year old uncle, i'd have acted already, and rather differently.

Quite possibly, a main reason i seem so calm about it is because my NIECE is so calm about it. If she had felt panicked, afraid, weirded out or something like that, i'd probably be more agitated. But as it seems, she also let this "happen" a bit out of curiosity. She could have confronted him right the second time(first time probably too busy working through all the information of whats happening), but let it happen, and not once more, but some times, before talking to him, and, ultimately, me. And i believe for her it's real childlike curiosity that got the better.

As for him, yes, i also want to help him. I doubt he's a pedophile in the making, he's been in (one-sided) love with a girl from another class for almost a year, so yes, i also think it was more of stupidity and availability than deviance.

Maybe i am wrong, on either, but it's my family, and i like to think as best of them as i can. Heck, i know those two from when i changed their diapers and babysat them. It's always easier to judge people not close to yourself. As said, i'll talk with him, sure, but i can't bring myself to the same level of pessimism expressed here, and i am glad for that.
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