I mean they invade other countries, kill people, destroy homes, and then call the people who are trying to protect their own country "Terrorists" I mean WTF!!!
How are you protecting your freedom by invading countries and stealing their natural resources????
I know that some US citizens were against invading Iraq and I respect those people, I'm also totally against what happened in 9\11.
I just believe that the only place you should carry a gun in is your own country.
Freedom fighters are defensive not offensive.
PalestinianGuy
How are you protecting your freedom by invading countries and stealing their natural resources????
I know that some US citizens were against invading Iraq and I respect those people, I'm also totally against what happened in 9\11.
I just believe that the only place you should carry a gun in is your own country.
Freedom fighters are defensive not offensive.
PalestinianGuy
The biggest casuality has been the public of each country thinking the public of another country are against them (and vice versa). From experience, everyday people get along just fine regardless of colour, religion, ideology, or country of birth (once per year, I attend an event with people of 150+ nationalities and it's about the most joyous thing in my calendar).
The only problem I have is with our political leaders starting conflict (as if I agree with it) and then feeding me propaganda about another country so that I think it's somehow right to invade.
We do not approve and we want it to stop.
Yesterday I watched "Buried" and I was actually rooting for the American.
and even if that was true, who assigned them to do that? they caused more harm than good!
Let's say you're fighting with your brother in your home, then some guy who is not related to you enters your home by force, kill your brother, and steal all the money you had in the house, then you go grab a knife and try to attach this intruder (who is carrying a gun), suddenly the intruder calls you a terrorist and that you're endangering the world's freedom, and now the whole world labels you as a terrorist because it happens that this guy is the toughest guy in the area and nobody wanna fuck with him.
Please imagine this situation and tell me what would you do?
I can't fully argue my case because i find it hard to explain all my points considering my language barrier (English is not my first language obviously)
but I think TerryVie said some of the stuff that I wanted to express.
Hey, nightmare, North Korea is acting very treatening towards South Korea again with it's new dictator...maybe you should step in?
Oh wait, no natural resources.
Hey, China is supressing a billion of people in a non-democratic government full with censorship and abuse of individuals.
Oh wait, they are a great trade partner.
Hey, Israel is bullying the palestinians again, threatening countries all around, has weapons of mass destruction etc...
Oh wait, they are allies and a great reason to go to war.
Hey, Indochina has serious terrorist problems, islamic extremists and stuff...
Oh wait, no natural reso....do i see a pattern here?
I think your scenario was very fitting.
Even if you change it around:
If two neighbours are fighting, and one kidnaps the other...the police may come in and take the kidnapper into custody, freeing the victim. Reasonable.
In real world scenario, they took the kidnapper into custody, moved into his house, evicted his family, took everything of value and say it was all to save the neighbour.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/world/middleeast/23casualties.html
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1066&bih=511&tbm=isch&tbnid=netbNVuOFYyJ3M:&imgrefurl=http://usiraq.procon.org/view.resource.php%3FresourceID%3D000671&docid=RfeTV92hUK9arM&imgurl=http://usiraq.procon.org/files/1-us-iraq-images/iraqi-civilian-casualties-january-2006-to-february-2008.jpg&w=507&h=382&ei=eNWVT_ntJY616AGS5_GVBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=230&vpy=187&dur=2265&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=142&ty=101&sig=117330299957203212651&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:72
Doesn't make those things much better :P
The sheer self-delusion necessary to believe one's nation is the "police officer" of the world with the right to decide who lives, who dies, who rules, and who owns what. Decadence at it's best. The US did LOTS of thing in the past 30 years to utterly destroy their foreign reputation. I am not saying ALL those things weren't necessary or all of it was wrong...but it should at least be observed with a critical view, not mindless agree-ance.
Stuff like killing civilians tends to leave a lasting impression, not only on the familys and relatives of those killed, and that impression does not become better if the ones doing the deed are official armed forces of a nation instead of radical terrorists.
The Waffen-SS killed millions of people, simply because they believed those people didn't deserve to live, not because they were a threat. Stalin butchered many people as well, but that was a much more complex story then what you think, you need to do a lot of reading before I can go into that subject with you (and I don't mean just the headlines in Wikipedia, and some comments made by teenagers). The Japanese refused to surrender under any circumstances Until those two bombs were dropped (also read about their war crimes).
Since you mentioned the Nazis, they got so much power only because the western nations wanted to avoid war. Saddam was a dictator drunk with power, who only looked out for his own welfare, no matter at what cost.
The Waffen-SS killed plenty of people, because they had a pre-made opinion of them, didn't question it, and acted on that because of how they were told to view them.
The US Marines killed plenty of people, because they had a pre-made opinion of them, didn't question it, and acted on that because of how they were ordered to act.
Stalin butchered a huge percentage of his people to strenghten his own position and prepare for war...the no-step-back policy and penal battailons + human wave doctrine were all necessary steps to withstand the wehrmacht, however, needlessly many young people were butchered to win the race to berlin against the western allies.
The japanese OFFERED to surrender before the nuclear bombs, with the sole condition that their tenno, who they saw as direct descendent of the gods, was not to be harmed/put into jail. It was a very acceptable offer and no invasion of mainland japan would have been necessary. The dropping of the bombs was not to break morale(incidently, ONE bomb would have been enough for that) but basically weapon tests on live targets under combat conditions. And they were targetted on civilians.
As for Saddam, the US helped the Bahd come into power in the first place, and supported him with weaponry against the Iran. He looked out for his own welfare, but also for his people...the US embargo for selling oil after the first iraq war was kept standing even after he requested to trade directly for needed medication and food...which would have been for his people, not him. That was denied in an attempt to break public opinion against him.
I am rather opinionated and don't claim anything else, the only thing i request is that facts are CRITICALLY considered, not just believed what people are told. The winner writes history, always been that way. And if you think the US is such a "good" nation only caring about world freedom and liberty of the people, then you need to read up on propaganda. It's a nation drunk with power, only looking out for it's own welfare, no matter at what cost.
Otherwise if you love freedom and democracy as I do, you consider the Marines/US defense the greatest force for good in the world.
No doubt you're a jihadist troll trying to stir up hate and animosity towards the US.
IndianGuy
You're then sent in to a war zone thinking that the enemy is going to come charging at you with a towel on his head and a rocket launcher - like the media portrays them. Instead, they come in the form of a sick, weak homeless man with a bomb strapped to his chest.
Children, teenagers, everyone there is readily employed and utilized as a weapon of warfare. Just how many of us would react the way they do when put in a country of a completely different culture with enemies that could be practically anyone would astound you.
I'm not saying that I agree with the Iraqi war. I don't agree with war in general. But many of these people go to this country under a false sense of patriotism - "putting our lives on the line for our country" - and they quickly realize that war isn't what it looked like on their video games.
The fact of the matter is that war is horrific, horrible, and these marines, much like the suicide bombers and actual terrorists in Iraq, are pawns of a much greater scheme that is decades in the making.
I think it is a bit of backlash from the occurrences around the world that could have been prevented if we had taken more control.
The problem is that often the politicians and their people have the same mentality. They do not like war but they still say things like "We need to send our troops after Joseph Kony" or "We need to intervene against the genocides happening in *insert random African country here*" but even though history has shown us that intervention rarely ever actually ends the problem (the last good example of an intervention that worked being something like WW2) especially intervention through the use of force, these people still forget and say these things not realizing that this is the mentality that got us here in the first place.
The USA is a country full of bleeding hearts. We have people protesting in the streets for causes that have nothing to do with them out of an innate sense of what is "right". Many of our citizens can not bear the though of just letting them die and solve their own problems but we need to.
Our military was designated to defend our country from foreign invaders. Not to play "hero" to a country that usually doesn't want our intervention to begin with.
Deciding to fight for one's country, or to fight for a cause, is a commitment to doing what you believe is right, to serving what you believe to be the greater good. That is what a Marine has decided - to put his or her faith in their country's military. A Marine is a man or woman, like you or I, whose life has led them on a path where they joined the military.
It is up to our military and political leaders to make the decisions for our Marines to carry out. Regrettably those decisions are not always in the best interest of all parties involved. We, the people, the backbone that gives our government and military its strength, shoulder the burden of putting people in power that we trust to make the best decisions. Even still, there are actions that we won't be happy with.
On occasion, a Marine (or any soldier) will make a decision on their own that causes unjustified harm to innocent people. The same goes for insurgents, operatives, combatants, heck - even a kid who picks up a gun. It's tragic, but it happens, and the innocents suffer. It also often damages the pysche of the one preforming said atrocity.
On occasion, a Marine (or any soldier) will take a stand against what they believe is a "bad order". They will refuse to carry out something they cannot morally agree with. There are repercussions, but some have the bravery and fortitude of spirit to accept that and deny the command anyway.
There is no black and white when it comes to war. There will never be a person, a group of people, or any entity that is "all evil" or "all good". Our Marines are individuals - parents, children, husbands, wives, farmers, philosophers, teachers, sports players, any myriad of backgrounds. They made a choice to put their lives on the line for what they believe in. To condemn the brave young men ordered by powerful old men to do something YOU personally feel is "wrong" is to blindly lash out at a symptom, ignoring the cause.
There are exceptions to every rule, every situation, and every Marine out there, of course, but to not give a fellow human being the credit of being just that... is to dehumanize them. Same goes for those they fight against. And dehumanization -
THAT
is what is dangerous and leads to more suffering in this world.
Well, that's my opinion at least.
I agree with you.
Victory.
Fuck them, every last on of them.
How is it we can 'stand together' when a 17 year old from Florida dies, but we divide when innocent women and children are bombed?
Born/raised U.S.
Also, I would like to add, those over there are following orders, doing what their commander told them, who was told be their commander, who was told be their commander, and so on to the top. They are simply doing it, because they believe in freedom, and they want to keep the war not on American soil. Where it probably would've ended up if America didn't retaliate after 9/11.
I don't know which theory you believe about what happened in 9\11, but I didn't buy what the media said, I feel that your top top top ...... has something to do with it.
Nobody wants to invade the US, it's the strongest country for Gods sake!! I know it's difficult for you to believe this but Arabs also wanna live in peace, shocker, I know.
I get that they want to, also, live in peace, but, like all countries, they have stupid people that do stupid things. Those people are why America does what it does when it goes into a country.
I can see why people may not like how our system works, but it is what made us one of the strongest countrie. It has also helped keep us one of the strongest.
I agree with this statement.
"I think terrorists are people who engage into a guerilla warfare based on religious/ideological beliefs and refuse to consider any other way."
A Terrorist: a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
"When the Marines are gonna explode themselves in public places, killing women and children. Or shot homemade missles on civillians across the border -yeah, i'll call them terrorist as well. get your facts straight."
I agree that killing innocent children and women is terrorism, but why do you call Gaza a terrorist state when it does that, and not Israel when it uses its F-16 and uses white phosphorus in civilian areas in Gaza.
Secondly, I cannot call israelies "terrorists" because what they do is way worse, it's called a "genocide". I never approved of any israeli policy regarding the gaza sector or the palestinian question.
regradless, your original thread is bordering with trolling because as you have admitted by agreeing with my statement - The marine corps are not a terrorist organization, thank you.
and to add to that... a terrorist is one who kills innocent civilians for no reason exept to strike fear into others. they also have no leader to give them orders...they act with a group of other people who are exatly like them...so as you can see...the marines arnt terrorists...and the reason thay attacked iraq is because iraq broke a peace treaty with america and the UN...not for oil... get your facts straigh dummy..
theunitedstatesmarines.com
to add on the US mariens did invade canada twice.
1rst time:we refused to give them weapons
2nd time:theye thought we where with hitler.
This is happening in Iraq, as we did in Bosnia and Kosovo, and many other wars over the past century of human existance. The death count of 9-11 is a pittance compared to how many people our armies have killed. And the amount of those people who were civillians is sickening.
Yes, our military has killed, but if we hadn't gone over there, what do you think they would've done next, after 9/11? It would've been brought here. They are the terriosts of thier own country, we went over there to save them.
But the reasons we went over there are far more complicated than a terrorist attack, it goes into political battles dated back to the late 80s and early 90s, and there are a multitude of reasons behind the war, terrorism simply being one of them.
What I meant to say about the whole rape thing is I don't know how involved U.S. troops have actually been with it, but it has long been used as a tactic of war. I cite Bosnia and Kosovo as a major and well known event of systematic rape of women as a tactic of war. The Japanese Comfort Women scandal is another well known one, though it's a recurring theme. Some police forces (uncommon in the U.S but it happens) use sexual harrassment as a way to antagonize an attack on them, so they can make arrests.
It's good that there's this urge to save people in unfortunate circumstances and all. But I don't think making their homeland into a war zone is the right way to do it. :/