I think Jesus was a nice bloke.....Though obviously not supernatural or omnipoitant. I would love to meet him and have a pint. It seems he basically said....just be nice to each other.
I acknowledge there was probably a guy by that name. I don't believe in him any more than i believe in Buddha, Jeanne d'Arc, Takeda Shingen, Walt Disney, Marie Curie or Adolf Hitler.
They're all people from the past, all of them left an inprint in our history that makes us remember them today, but believe? Na. I believe in my partner, i believe in my family, i believe in 2 or 3 close friends, thats about the extent of believe i'm able to give.
Of course there was a guy called 'jesus' in the Middle East. Since Jesus is still a common name even today!
Since the Internet and TV and any such media was not about back then, certainly the 'telling of tales' was the biggest entertainment for most. And what better entertainment for the younger people than to go against the people in power.
Although the story of the Bible was stolen from scriptures centuries before, it is still likely that a man named jesus was a story teller (a common thing as stated) and obviously well liked by some immediate close friends.
All this has nothing to do with religion or supernaturals or even a 'god'! But trying telling a Christian that.
I also don't believe in Allah or the 'prophet Muhammad', but these people ALSO came from the Middle East as well. I'm pretty sure the hot sun affected many minds there! Since religion took a strong hold on the Middle east, they have become the dumbest society in the world!
oho.... you guys dont need to disrespect any religion....please it touches heart and creates conflicts ,... Im a Muslim and you are right that Muhammad s.a.w was a person indeed a common man but he was also a messenger of Allah...!!! and Allah is not a person ...he is a light of guidance the creator.....!!! not going in detail we just need to discuss why the person writing his thought is thinking that and comment on it....you also might have a religion and should respect all the others....!!! you cant be racist calling any society dumb and driven because of their religion there are many Christian,Buddhists and other societies suffering from failures that means they are also dumb.... no way its belief of every individual....!!! and potential or capability for succeeding is far different from it...!!
What? And why do you have a pic of Taylor Swift in your profile? And what do you mean Allah? There is NO proof of such a thing. Why on Earth would you believe in something that is utterly ridiculous? What is the difference with me saying I believe in the flying spaghetti monster and he makes me feel good! Its utter nonsense. Not only that but any 'female' worshiping this man's make believe god, would have to be crazy. This is NOT my opinion. This is just common sense. Allah? That is absolutely pathetic. I find ALL people that still worship old fashioned made up stories of 'god' extremely weak minded, especially in our modern space age time. Religious people get in the way of humans advancing in every single way you can think of. That's just it, religious people just don't think. The god delusion, give it a read sometime. You feel there is a god and it makes you feel better. Seriously that's just sad. Please help rid the world of all religion, its just messed up crap. Allah is nothing but a fairy tale, leaning more towards fairy.
shut up.... (no offense) its just rediculous how youy think... having a pic of taylor swift doesnt matter at ALL SHE IS JUST A CELEBRITY AND I LIKE HER AND THATS ALSO NO OFFENSE .... AND I TOLD YOU IN THE STARTING ONLY WE DONT NEED TO DISRESPECT ANY ONES RELIGION... I THINK YOU DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT ISLAM... SCIENCE PROVES IT... AND I PITY ON YOUR LIFE AFTER DEATH...!!! I THINK YOU DONT HAVE ANY RELIGION... !! I WONDER WHY YOU KEPT YOUR NAME DAD YOU DONT DESRVE TO BE ONE.... MY MY ...!! YOU JUST ARE REDICULOUS
im sorry if you mind it... but i would request you dont ever argue on a religion you'll have to pay for it somewhere in real life you can be put in a thick soup....!!! dont take it on heart man i just got hyper... ;p
I spit on all gospel religious gods (note they are foolish idiotic religious fiction) I hope that doesn't cause any ill effect? Oh dear, no issue. As usual religion is wrong. Solved :)
oho.... tell me what are you ... i really think you dont have any religion... tell me what you believe in... plz its getting more suspense !!! without religion its all just so complicated..!!!
The main reason is due to lack of evidence in any deity. Plus it just seems like common sense that everything evolved naturally.
The idea of an almighty god figure, is the most complicated, beyond any rational reasoning (including everything we see in our world or the universe, or even past events) It just seems like utter nonsense to me. The option of an intelligent alien force creating life here is more feasible, and even that is extremely unlikely as we now know how everything evolved, even here on Earth.
Thankfully ALL public schools are now teaching children about science and evolution. Anything (at all, other than history - like how we once believed in witches)to do with a 'god' (ridiculous) has been totally removed. Hooray for that.
Can you supply any proof of god? If so then you'd win the noble prize. Because as yet there has not even been the slightest of proof from anywhere.
Lack of evidence in god, is a pretty sound statement. Don't you feel we should all be atheists? I do.
your answer is impressive BUT i am a deep believer in almighty .... its not sufficient for me !!!! and i may not be able to proof the unseen presence of god but I'll try a bit from which is being taught to us through our holy book QURAN... it was revealed about 400 years ago still it contains the most complicated scientific info man is discovering in such a modern time ... for instance -> in QURAN MY god says that he will burn ( as a punishment) the unbeliever in fire and once his skin get of because of the burn he will be taken out and and given a new skin... the question raised why ?? science proves it today that the sensation of any harm or injury is only associated with skin once an injury goes beyond it then there is no pain thats why god has stated punishment through skin only...!!! there are many other evidences that keeps ones eye wide open... thats why i suggested you to read QURAN plz plz that will at least increase your info about Islam.... and may be you realize that disrespecting any religion is not right and any believer is not a fool....!!!
Looks its true I haven't read the Qur'an. But one of the main reasons is that it cannot help me (or anyone) as we now have updated (say even this year or last) factual science information available to refer to for any 'science' knowledge. I mean its not like doctors hold a Qur'an on their shelves to refer to on such things as skin and nerves etc etc. That would be crazy.
I decided to look up your 'skin' revitalizing argument, and here's the actual quote:
Qur'an 4:55 "Sufficient for them is Hell and the Flaming Fire! Those [Jews] who disbelieve Our Revelations shall be cast into Hell. When their skin is burnt up and singed, We shall give them a new coat that they may go on tasting the agony of punishment."
How lovely! You follow this? Why are you a sadist?
Christians do the exact same thing with the Bible, they keep re-deciphering it. Strangely always AFTER a new science discovery was found. Why don't these 'religious' followers tell us of our next find? Is there another atom or electron or something that we are again going to find (other than the newly discovered boson) Why wait until science informs us of facts? And before you quote some 'end of days' doom and loom, no I'm not talking about that rubbish, I'm talking about these common science facts that religious people state they already had that in their good book, but just forgot to say it until SCIENCE came in. How ironic.
My understanding is the Qur'an is not like the Bible at all (with hidden desipherable facts, Lol) But what it is, is life a continual life passage, where the ending is not the same as the beginning. The problem is that these Arabs needed to keep writing and bring out revision 2 then 3 then 4. and so on. Up to now it would be revision 1400 or something. Then at least it would have some meaning.
We DON'T follow this old literature, because its outdated and nonsense (plus it keeps referring to this fiction god which obviously doesn't help. We use SCIENCE (actual factual science) research, theories, facts, to help humankind presently and into the future.
late reply..!! i think you researched for this (impressive).. well you are right ...but this was not actually waiting for science to prove it.. see Quran is revealed about 1400 years ago when knowledge was only in reach of few fortunate people and only some could understand it still people use the hadith (words of prophet p.b.u.h ) and sunnah (actions of prophet p.b.u.h ) for better explanation of these words as Quran is still difficult and kind of mysterious people who have less knowledge ... you know when did the scientist who discovered this skin one fact knew about these words in Quran... as i have heard when there was a debate or kind of seminar where he was suppose to explain these facts ..it started with recitation of a Surah containing these verses and the person or rather famous scientist was amazed that for which he spent 40 years of his life it is stated in a book revealed 14000 years ago... people are much less interested in this book the misguided ones and they are realizing it now how much useful Islam is... thats why the percentage of people converting to Islam is increasing>>!!!
im really sorry if any where during any conversation with you i've been disrespectful... you are much much elder then me... SORRY >>>:( im ashamed once i said SHUT UP....
Damn you o_0, I wasn't going to reply then saw your last comment here! :D Oh well, may as well reply, especially in light of recent 'Muslim' worldwide demonstrations of their 'peaceful' (huh!) religion.
I think my concern is that religion seems to be dependent upon country of birth (in the 'most' part) If you were born and raised in the Middle East, then you'd likely be a Muhammad worshiper, if in say the US then probably a 'Jesus' lover. Even this in itself shows me that either 1: One is wrong, or both (sway towards both) 2: Its a 'cultural' thing that parents continually hand down to their children (quite obviously that doesn't denote proof itself)
I understand you can't 'prove' this feeling to me. Nor can I 100% prove that their is no god. My concerns are for humankind to continue to progress, and I feel we have come to a time in our human race that we need to let go of the old ways and embrace science, at least on survival alone!
I STILL feel the Bible or Qur'an is NOT a book of knowledge or 'science'! Since that is a contradiction. I spoke to an 'open' old friend today about spiritual beliefs and religion. My obvious point was that its myth and fairytale. He on the other hand stated he did NOT believe in any religion, BUT believes that a 'god' or 'something' MUST exist. All examples he gave seemed weak (to me) nothing proved his point. I suggested he 'may' be agnostic, but he felt he was more SCIENTIFIC than that. (?)
I continued with how we cannot just say 'god did it', as we need to research and gain scientific facts/knowledge BEFORE we jump to any (unfounded) conclusions, as this is normal real 'human like'. To learn and learn and eventually come to an intelligent reasonable conclusion. He stated I was not 'open' to such things and therefore not as 'wise' on the topic! My point was that I AM open to ANYTHING, one of those things was not to jump at conclusions and be so closed minded to state, oh well we don't know, therefore a god did it!! That to me is CLOSED minded.
It continually comes down to words and meanings, basically semantics. You yourself feel the Qur'an is full of knowledge even science! It concerns me greatly when religiously minded people use these words OUT OF CONTEXT. How can the Qur'an be used to help 'people'? Its about ~1400 years old! Through an illiterate 'messenger' written in Arabic. These things that supposedly hold true today took what? 1400 years to manifest themselves today? Is the landing on Mars in there too? What about the specifics of Andromeda galaxy on direct impact with our galaxy one day? Aren't these things (and MUCH more) important enough to be recited by god (your Allah)?
Interpretations and cherry picking and even coincidence (especially allowing anytime within 1400 years!) Does not help science or humankind. Nor does the misuse of 'words' being used to describe such things as the Qur'an as 'scientifically knowledgeable'! These types of wording and misplaced education can lead to devastating effects. Its a matter of poorly guided individuals believing in a quest to destroy ALL humans, not just ones that don't believe in Allah (death be upon this ridiculous belief).
Separation of church and state worldwide is inevitable. People are just not that gullible any longer about miracles and scientific impossibilities (like an all powerful highly complicated 'god' like individual existing). Its nonsense and not even natural to our entire universe, let alone 'country of birth'!
im trying my best here to not to be disrespectful.... you are right we both cant convince each other on our views and beliefs .... thats why long conversations are ending just like that but thats kind a useful I learned that OK yes ! every one is not Muslim you gotta accept and tolerate them and we should use our power of words to at least have an argument about that ... THIS CONVERSATION TAUGHT ME MUCH... secondly ,woe to your belief and i still believe in Allah !! proudly... and wish one day you get to have a conversation with much knowledgeable person who can prove you wrong as although i tried my best but im still and naive .... and I no where said that we can use Quran as source of scientific knowledge or future interpretations its much more than that, a complete book of wisdom.... You said illiterate Muhammad (nauzubillah)but let me tell you in the list of the most righteous people in the whole world and all history, Mohammad is the first most.... i repeat again we are not fools to believe IN ALLAH>>>!!!
o_0, I'm 'trying' to respect your beliefs (as even society does). But I keep hearing the words of Richard Dawkins stating that religious belief is either ignorance, stupidity or crazy! I mean I've watched ALL of his videos on Youtube, there's at least a hundred of them, and mostly very long.
I mean it I am trying to 'respect' this belief system as others 'seem' to have. I seriously don't know if I'll get there :( I DO respect individuals I meet obviously, with or without 'faith'. But when I drive past churches (or 'Muslim' places of worship) I can't help but think what a waste of space.
I honestly feel religious belief is not forever, not even for a hundred more years! I feel its a matter of education especially whilst a person is young. To guide them and show them the wonders of the 'natural' universe.
So we are at ends. I'm unsure where to go from here. I will say that when I (well everyone including animals, plants etc etc) die, we all eventually decompose and breakup and turn to dust to spread in the Earth, and eventually the Universe (about 5 billion years when Earth is likely destroyed). Basically from stardust to stardust we go. So that's at least some beauty in our life after death.
Your 'life after death' just seems very very unlikely. Firstly only 'people' have this 'afterlife'! I mean what's with that? Secondly doesn't our brain and nervous system 'feel' things? When you're dead you're dead! Next, you guys get virgins or something? That's just ridiculous (nothing to add about that) 'Christians' get to praise Jesus forever, whilst 'living' (?) in bliss for eternity? I'm already sick of that idea and I've only been alive here on Earth for a few decades!!
There's a lot more 'silly' things, that are ALL (all of them) not natural. How I can possibly 'respect' this 'faith' system is incredibly difficult for me, but I DO try.
these talks go useless i thought you wouldnt reply... ii thought you are fed of it ..but its okay.. you are no where going to agree with me and same is the case for me ... if you have IIN gold text me ...we can have long discussion about any other topic at least that way your and my effort will not get lost... i prefer talking about observations and other knowledge increasing topic... (hope you dont find me foolish for this request )
haha i knew that from the starting only but just tried to know if you had an option... although this conversation was something against my religion but i enjoyed alot .... i tried my best using my knowledge well.... i knew this also that (as i observed) that you are seen only in this category.... mostly .... you would just like to know that you impressed me.. and anytime i'll be glad to share your knowledge and ideas ... DAD...
I believe in God because I have witnessed enough things in life that could never be explained by saying that what happened was just coincidence. Some things cannot be explained away by science or logic.
That's strange because no one has ever supplied or documented a miracle. Please upload this miracle to youtube I'd love to see water change into wine, or how bones and muscles and nervous systems mend themselves in a spit second. As yet no one has provided this evidence, crazy don't you think?
You know I always find it strange when priests (or any religious confused person) say its in god's hands if someone dies of cancer (etc) or not. But they still agree to chemo and operations scientifically of course. I mean shouldn't priests be running down the street and say don't go to the doctors for any critical illness, its in god's hands if you die or not! What? These priests must be hypocrites I conclude.
It seems the only time a 'miracle' has been said to be done is when AFTER all the chemo or operations, the doctors say they can't do any more (until more advances in science research of course) And then, as if by miracle, they survive! What? They SURVIVED because everything was previously scientifically done, and only time will help to see if they get better or not. Otherwise, as stated, religious people wouldn't even go to hospital (of which some religious parents don't take their children to doctors negligently).
I mean why even go to the doctors? Isn't it in god's hands? Oh that's only when you are TOTALLY utterly desperate, and will try anything. Yes I'm aware that this is the only area that religious people believe miracles have happened. Religious people are absolute hypocrites.
We live in the space age time, let go of this backward belief system that makes zero natural sense. Man Made God In His Own Image
The Bible documents many miracles and as I said I've witnessed first hand enough things in my life that cannot be explained by science. There are many other examples of miracles that don't involve curing people. I have to say that I'm surprised at your response here - I've read a lot of your comments and you usually give some pretty sound advice.<BR>I am not a hypocrite btw.
Yes just on the 'religious' type of posts I do become a tad more boisterous!
I don't accept your 'witnessing' because you may not have heard but there has been ZERO evidence of anything EVER happening to anyone via 'god'. Lol
Yes its all too often we hear of people say I have felt him, or I witnessed it, or something is 'unexplained' None of these mount up to reality though.
You know if I were god (hypothetically speaking) I'd probably come down every single day just so people knew I existed. Seems reasonable when MOST don't believe any longer. Religion is going out of our society, and good riddance to it. People can now care and help others through normal human kindness and this may confuse you - humanity.
People on Earth - 200,000 years Life on Earth - 4,600,000,000 Billion years Humans have been around for a mere 0.004% of the Earth's history. Oh and our known universe is 13,700,000,000 years old
Oh but man made god in his own image!! Absolute crazy. Ok may be not crazy - and I only say this for you, but shameful.
Like the end of the world? Heard it before for many decades now (always a new date) Sorry couldn't resist saying that, its the first thing that I thought of.
Anyway, I'd like to thank you for continually staying respectful. It can be difficult to hold back our feelings on this board at times.
Also note out of all the billions of people in our world, and also the ones that have passed, still no evidence. Must be a very personal thing, what a shame you can't share it. When you read about known facts and hear things like its common sense we all evolved, and extremely (really 100%) unlikely that any super natural exists watching over us, oh and (only) people get to go to heaven. Dogs, cats, trees all other life, well! They are just there for our enjoyment or food or something? Seriously that's nuts!
I cant believe people dont believe in Jesus!! I dont see how people can deny and mock him. He's story is loving and caring. The least people should have should be respect.
I feel shame towards religion. Its utter nonsense that people feel this Middle east guy (jesus still a common name there) was the son of god. Lol That is ludicrous. Time to grow up, believing fairy tales are not meant for adults. And the bible story is definitely not meant for children. Shame religos shame.
unless your weak minded and insecure why would you. iv grown out of living in fear of the big bad god thats gonna twat me into hell coz i dont like him. LOL
It's too simplistic a question. It's possible to believe in aspects of religion (and Jesus) without following every single word of the Bible to the letter of the law (nobody does that, not even the most devoutly religious).
You might get some atheists saying it's a book of lies, that it's all made up, but that is a crazy viewpoint too.
I believe that stories of magical and heroic deeds (which had previously been attributed to others, as you will know if you've looked beyond the Bible) came to be attributed to one figure (this often happens in cultures with an oral tradition). I can believe that figure lived. I can believe major events of the Bible occurred and that is a document of huge historical importance.
But I can also accept that in a 2000-year-old game of Chinese whispers played by many people who don't even speak the same language, there is the teensiest, tiniest possibility that it's not 100% completely, entirely, and absolutely free of even the most minor of errors.
From my studies, I've come to conclude that the bible does have some stories of historical accuracy, and a few books are transferred from oral traditions as parables but that many books are of unknown origin and have either been fabricated or altered for the purposes of power, I believe most of this alteration has been done during the Medieval Era and some of the fabrication was an attempt to tame what was a very chaotic society. Religious authorites that I spoke to once upon a time attest that the old testament only originally was the ten commandments and the stories of Moses but nothing more. More was just added.
I hold science in high regard, but even the records of scientific discoveries are not immune from human tampering for gains. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. The first example that comes to mind is companies that pay off their scientists to try to find "conclusive" discoveries in support of their product or cause that they could use to dissuade the public from suspicion.
I couldn't agree more. I have seen some global abuses in research (particularly healthcare) for which people should hang. I don't normally believe in the death penalty but if your actions knowingly bring about the deaths of tens of thousands of people then it doesn't matter if you're a dictator or a businessman in a suit.
I agree with you about the alteration to the texts and when that happened. Occasionally you can see where it's happened.
I'm fascinated by the books of all religions but the bible is a social history as well as historic in the wider sense.
One thing I'm always interested in is when science and the bible work together. Scientifically, we can pretty much prove the great flood, determine where it happened, and even why. If I was religious, though, I might feel squinky about science giving scientific backing to things in the bible.
I know there's absolutely no need for the two spheres of thought to be opposed (and it's my personal opinion that they have the same root) but that's the way it sometimes seems. I wish more people approached it like you and I. I don't think we attack each other about it at all, and I'm always interested in what you say because you come at it calmly and without suspicion.
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do. I believe that my mentality stems from my belief that humans are entirely and eternally flawed and by extension, anything they create will be flawed as well. On that account, whether or not my church or collegues agree with me, I'm nonetheless always willing to accept that anything created by the hands of a human is fallible no matter how air tight it may seem.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, that religion and science as well as every academia can live together in harmony. All knowledge is wonderful. Personally, I see science (by which I mean the observable processes of nature and the possibilities of which) as God's gift to man as a means to understand his creation. Like an artist showing his work to.the world, there's a little bit of God and the universe in everything. I'm sure I don't have to explain to you the wonders of the mechanisms of cells and how they bear such similarity to what has been invented by humans...
Whether you chock it up to a Supreme Creator or to the magic that is in nature in and of itself is your personal choice that I feel no need to judge. I'm just happy that I'm not the only person that can appreciate both "worlds".
"It's possible to believe in aspects of religion (and Jesus) without following every single word of the Bible to the letter of the law (nobody does that, not even the most devoutly religious)."
I disagree. If you believe your God is PERFECT, you CANNOT throw out some of the rules, simply because you don't like them, such as killing disobedient children (something Jesus approved of btw).
I'll have to disagree. I think following the Bible to the letter of the law is such a difficult and unusual thing to do that people have written books about their attempt to do so. For instance, A. J. Jacobs with "The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible".
I know people who "believe" but I don't know anyone who follows the bible literally and entirely. I would never say they are non-believers, though.
It is indeed virtually impossible to follow the Bible entirely, since it contains literally HUNDREDS of contradictions (quite a lot of which involve the most crucial aspects of Christianity btw). See: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
"I know people who "believe" but I don't know anyone who follows the bible literally and entirely. I would never say they are non-believers, though."
Same here. I also wouldn't say they are non-believers. What I WOULD say however, is that they are being kinda illogical. Don't they believe a PERFECT being inspired their book?
As an irreligious person I think I can cherry-pick the good stuff (yes that is subjective, I know) from the Bible (as from any book) WITHOUT being hypocritical. However, when you claim to follow a specific religion, I honestly think you HAVE to follow EVERYTHING in said religion (which isn't even possible in Christianity's case, because of the contradictions).
It's an interesting point. I suppose everybody has to find a way of dealing with the texts of their religion. A friend of the family (who is a Methodist minister) always recommends a common-sense approach (as opposed to an anal and literal approach). I'd never thought about it until now but there's a relationship between holy books and those who follow the religion and it's a different relationship for each person. It's personal.
Strangely, I suppose, there can be a relationship even between atheists and holy books. Parts of the bible make a lot of sense to me. Why would I choose to ignore them just because the book as a whole alludes to some things that I don't believe? There are parts of Islam, and many Eastern religions that I feel similarly about.
I do believe there's a global truth and many religions tap into it, but are also abused by writers who want power, control or a tourniquet for their insecurities.
"Strangely, I suppose, there can be a relationship even between atheists and holy books. Parts of the bible make a lot of sense to me. Why would I choose to ignore them just because the book as a whole alludes to some things that I don't believe? There are parts of Islam, and many Eastern religions that I feel similarly about."
I totally agree. For example, though I despise Christianity as a whole as an absurd and immoral religion, I think (tiny) bits of the Bible contain precious gems of wisdom.
I think what is important to remember is that a good part of the Bible is about how to live together in harmony, in communtities where there is respect and consideration for others and how to live as a family and raise your children to respect you. Many of the other stories teach you to believe and have faith in God. Almost all religions promote this so there must be some sense in it at least.
The story says he's a zombie. Tell me why you don't believe in a spider man? the comic say's he's real? ill tell you why... Your deep naturally occurring need to believe in something that will make feel special and important ( now be honest with yourself)make's you believe in jesus, thor, cthulu?, ra, poseidon. its a human thing most of us (more primitive) do it.
I personally don't believe in him they say that they created the earth and everything on it when science has proved it totally wrong. I have nothing against people who believe in him i just don't believe in him.
belief makes you blind sometime....!!! i am a Muslim and i used to think why people dont believe in one god and why dont they understand that puppets cant provide them any thing...(NO OFFENSE ) but with time i have realized that many people would think the same for me also that why i believe in an unknown unseen god may be seem more foolish to them than how they seem to me... its all about beliefs and the insight of every person....
That's not evidence. Actually its not anything at all. I personally feel its extremely shameful that people believe 'jesus' was the son of god. Plus your 'Allah' ridiculousness falls into the same category - utter nonsense! Grow up.
urgh... if thats growing i dont wana grow up... and i will suggest you plz read QURAN to increase your knowledge and see how every thing is explained you will find how QURAN tells us about many things 400 years ago which science has found now.... take it as an ordinary book to read as you may read many other books and youll find a way out of your such a deep foolishness...
I'd use the holly Qur'an to keep me warm by burning it, but reading it? Why on Earth would I do that? We have UPDATED everything now. If you want to learn about actual present science understandings read a factual recent science book (or just use the Internet). Hello, something is not registering in your head. Christianity is pathetic, but Allah? That's just down right abuse. Burn it all. I hope that was written in your book too? Does the book state to burn it one day? Its all there ;)
This is not a debate forum. I did not ask this question to start some religious debate between at least four people, I asked it because I actually want to know if it's normal.
I feel like some things in life, are unexplainable. Scientist doesn't have all the answers, if we were made through the creations of monkeys than who made the monkeys? who made the organisms? Its seems like this person God is the only way it can.possible happen. And with that being said there has to be no way Jesus isn't real.
Jesus WAS real, and he was a teacher of Chrstianity, but he didn' t sacrifice himself for our sins. He was executed for starting a revolt, and the Romans put him on the cross, and watched him rot.
There is proof he existed. And he DID die on a cross. But, the part about him performing miracles, being god's son, and dying for our sins is bull. He was executed against his will for causing a rebellion.
And people of rational reasoning?
I say there's some things that religious people don't want to know - Important things.
Time to grow up now. God, Jesus, Allah, Muhammad and all the rest is just utter nonsense.
Seriously READ and learn, there is already enough info out there. These old religious 'stories' are just fiction.
Shame his dad is such a bastard!!!!!
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.nl/2010/11/reasons-to-be-ashamed-and-not-fan-of.html
I don't believe in him any more than i believe in Buddha, Jeanne d'Arc, Takeda Shingen, Walt Disney, Marie Curie or Adolf Hitler.
They're all people from the past, all of them left an inprint in our history that makes us remember them today, but believe? Na. I believe in my partner, i believe in my family, i believe in 2 or 3 close friends, thats about the extent of believe i'm able to give.
Of course there was a guy called 'jesus' in the Middle East. Since Jesus is still a common name even today!
Since the Internet and TV and any such media was not about back then, certainly the 'telling of tales' was the biggest entertainment for most. And what better entertainment for the younger people than to go against the people in power.
Although the story of the Bible was stolen from scriptures centuries before, it is still likely that a man named jesus was a story teller (a common thing as stated) and obviously well liked by some immediate close friends.
All this has nothing to do with religion or supernaturals or even a 'god'! But trying telling a Christian that.
I also don't believe in Allah or the 'prophet Muhammad', but these people ALSO came from the Middle East as well. I'm pretty sure the hot sun affected many minds there! Since religion took a strong hold on the Middle east, they have become the dumbest society in the world!
not going in detail we just need to discuss why the person writing his thought is thinking that and comment on it....you also might have a religion and should respect all the others....!!! you cant be racist calling any society dumb and driven because of their religion there are many Christian,Buddhists and other societies suffering from failures that means they are also dumb.... no way its belief of every individual....!!! and potential or capability for succeeding is far different from it...!!
And why do you have a pic of Taylor Swift in your profile?
And what do you mean Allah? There is NO proof of such a thing.
Why on Earth would you believe in something that is utterly ridiculous?
What is the difference with me saying I believe in the flying spaghetti monster and he makes me feel good! Its utter nonsense. Not only that but any 'female' worshiping this man's make believe god, would have to be crazy.
This is NOT my opinion. This is just common sense. Allah? That is absolutely pathetic.
I find ALL people that still worship old fashioned made up stories of 'god' extremely weak minded, especially in our modern space age time.
Religious people get in the way of humans advancing in every single way you can think of. That's just it, religious people just don't think.
The god delusion, give it a read sometime.
You feel there is a god and it makes you feel better. Seriously that's just sad.
Please help rid the world of all religion, its just messed up crap.
Allah is nothing but a fairy tale, leaning more towards fairy.
I hope that doesn't cause any ill effect?
Oh dear, no issue. As usual religion is wrong.
Solved :)
I'm an atheist and proud.
The main reason is due to lack of evidence in any deity. Plus it just seems like common sense that everything evolved naturally.
The idea of an almighty god figure, is the most complicated, beyond any rational reasoning (including everything we see in our world or the universe, or even past events) It just seems like utter nonsense to me.
The option of an intelligent alien force creating life here is more feasible, and even that is extremely unlikely as we now know how everything evolved, even here on Earth.
Thankfully ALL public schools are now teaching children about science and evolution. Anything (at all, other than history - like how we once believed in witches)to do with a 'god' (ridiculous) has been totally removed. Hooray for that.
Can you supply any proof of god? If so then you'd win the noble prize. Because as yet there has not even been the slightest of proof from anywhere.
Lack of evidence in god, is a pretty sound statement. Don't you feel we should all be atheists? I do.
it was revealed about 400 years ago still it contains the most complicated scientific info man is discovering in such a modern time ... for instance -> in QURAN MY god says that he will burn ( as a punishment) the unbeliever in fire and once his skin get of because of the burn he will be taken out and and given a new skin... the question raised why ?? science proves it today that the sensation of any harm or injury is only associated with skin once an injury goes beyond it then there is no pain thats why god has stated punishment through skin only...!!! there are many other evidences that keeps ones eye wide open... thats why i suggested you to read QURAN plz plz that will at least increase your info about Islam.... and may be you realize that disrespecting any religion is not right and any believer is not a fool....!!!
But one of the main reasons is that it cannot help me (or anyone) as we now have updated (say even this year or last) factual science information available to refer to for any 'science' knowledge. I mean its not like doctors hold a Qur'an on their shelves to refer to on such things as skin and nerves etc etc. That would be crazy.
I decided to look up your 'skin' revitalizing argument, and here's the actual quote:
Qur'an 4:55 "Sufficient for them is Hell and the Flaming Fire! Those [Jews] who disbelieve Our Revelations shall be cast into Hell. When their skin is burnt up and singed, We shall give them a new coat that they may go on tasting the agony of punishment."
How lovely! You follow this? Why are you a sadist?
Christians do the exact same thing with the Bible, they keep re-deciphering it.
Strangely always AFTER a new science discovery was found.
Why don't these 'religious' followers tell us of our next find? Is there another atom or electron or something that we are again going to find (other than the newly discovered boson)
Why wait until science informs us of facts? And before you quote some 'end of days' doom and loom, no I'm not talking about that rubbish, I'm talking about these common science facts that religious people state they already had that in their good book, but just forgot to say it until SCIENCE came in. How ironic.
My understanding is the Qur'an is not like the Bible at all (with hidden desipherable facts, Lol) But what it is, is life a continual life passage, where the ending is not the same as the beginning. The problem is that these Arabs needed to keep writing and bring out revision 2 then 3 then 4. and so on. Up to now it would be revision 1400 or something. Then at least it would have some meaning.
We DON'T follow this old literature, because its outdated and nonsense (plus it keeps referring to this fiction god which obviously doesn't help.
We use SCIENCE (actual factual science) research, theories, facts, to help humankind presently and into the future.
see Quran is revealed about 1400 years ago when knowledge was only in reach of few fortunate people and only some could understand it still people use the hadith (words of prophet p.b.u.h ) and sunnah (actions of prophet p.b.u.h ) for better explanation of these words as Quran is still difficult and kind of mysterious people who have less knowledge ...
you know when did the scientist who discovered this skin one fact knew about these words in Quran... as i have heard when there was a debate or kind of seminar where he was suppose to explain these facts ..it started with recitation of a Surah containing these verses and the person or rather famous scientist was amazed that for which he spent 40 years of his life it is stated in a book revealed 14000 years ago...
people are much less interested in this book the misguided ones and they are realizing it now how much useful Islam is... thats why the percentage of people converting to Islam is increasing>>!!!
Oh well, may as well reply, especially in light of recent 'Muslim' worldwide demonstrations of their 'peaceful' (huh!) religion.
I think my concern is that religion seems to be dependent upon country of birth (in the 'most' part)
If you were born and raised in the Middle East, then you'd likely be a Muhammad worshiper, if in say the US then probably a 'Jesus' lover. Even this in itself shows me that either 1: One is wrong, or both (sway towards both) 2: Its a 'cultural' thing that parents continually hand down to their children (quite obviously that doesn't denote proof itself)
I understand you can't 'prove' this feeling to me. Nor can I 100% prove that their is no god. My concerns are for humankind to continue to progress, and I feel we have come to a time in our human race that we need to let go of the old ways and embrace science, at least on survival alone!
I STILL feel the Bible or Qur'an is NOT a book of knowledge or 'science'! Since that is a contradiction.
I spoke to an 'open' old friend today about spiritual beliefs and religion. My obvious point was that its myth and fairytale. He on the other hand stated he did NOT believe in any religion, BUT believes that a 'god' or 'something' MUST exist. All examples he gave seemed weak (to me) nothing proved his point. I suggested he 'may' be agnostic, but he felt he was more SCIENTIFIC than that. (?)
I continued with how we cannot just say 'god did it', as we need to research and gain scientific facts/knowledge BEFORE we jump to any (unfounded) conclusions, as this is normal real 'human like'. To learn and learn and eventually come to an intelligent reasonable conclusion.
He stated I was not 'open' to such things and therefore not as 'wise' on the topic! My point was that I AM open to ANYTHING, one of those things was not to jump at conclusions and be so closed minded to state, oh well we don't know, therefore a god did it!! That to me is CLOSED minded.
It continually comes down to words and meanings, basically semantics. You yourself feel the Qur'an is full of knowledge even science! It concerns me greatly when religiously minded people use these words OUT OF CONTEXT. How can the Qur'an be used to help 'people'? Its about ~1400 years old! Through an illiterate 'messenger' written in Arabic. These things that supposedly hold true today took what? 1400 years to manifest themselves today? Is the landing on Mars in there too? What about the specifics of Andromeda galaxy on direct impact with our galaxy one day? Aren't these things (and MUCH more) important enough to be recited by god (your Allah)?
Interpretations and cherry picking and even coincidence (especially allowing anytime within 1400 years!) Does not help science or humankind. Nor does the misuse of 'words' being used to describe such things as the Qur'an as 'scientifically knowledgeable'! These types of wording and misplaced education can lead to devastating effects. Its a matter of poorly guided individuals believing in a quest to destroy ALL humans, not just ones that don't believe in Allah (death be upon this ridiculous belief).
Separation of church and state worldwide is inevitable. People are just not that gullible any longer about miracles and scientific impossibilities (like an all powerful highly complicated 'god' like individual existing). Its nonsense and not even natural to our entire universe, let alone 'country of birth'!
secondly ,woe to your belief and i still believe in Allah !! proudly... and wish one day you get to have a conversation with much knowledgeable person who can prove you wrong as although i tried my best but im still and naive .... and I no where said that we can use Quran as source of scientific knowledge or future interpretations its much more than that, a complete book of wisdom.... You said illiterate Muhammad (nauzubillah)but let me tell you in the list of the most righteous people in the whole world and all history, Mohammad is the first most.... i repeat again we are not fools to believe IN ALLAH>>>!!!
But I keep hearing the words of Richard Dawkins stating that religious belief is either ignorance, stupidity or crazy! I mean I've watched ALL of his videos on Youtube, there's at least a hundred of them, and mostly very long.
I mean it I am trying to 'respect' this belief system as others 'seem' to have.
I seriously don't know if I'll get there :(
I DO respect individuals I meet obviously, with or without 'faith'. But when I drive past churches (or 'Muslim' places of worship) I can't help but think what a waste of space.
I honestly feel religious belief is not forever, not even for a hundred more years! I feel its a matter of education especially whilst a person is young. To guide them and show them the wonders of the 'natural' universe.
So we are at ends. I'm unsure where to go from here.
I will say that when I (well everyone including animals, plants etc etc) die, we all eventually decompose and breakup and turn to dust to spread in the Earth, and eventually the Universe (about 5 billion years when Earth is likely destroyed). Basically from stardust to stardust we go.
So that's at least some beauty in our life after death.
Your 'life after death' just seems very very unlikely.
Firstly only 'people' have this 'afterlife'! I mean what's with that?
Secondly doesn't our brain and nervous system 'feel' things? When you're dead you're dead!
Next, you guys get virgins or something? That's just ridiculous (nothing to add about that)
'Christians' get to praise Jesus forever, whilst 'living' (?) in bliss for eternity? I'm already sick of that idea and I've only been alive here on Earth for a few decades!!
There's a lot more 'silly' things, that are ALL (all of them) not natural. How I can possibly 'respect' this 'faith' system is incredibly difficult for me, but I DO try.
Sadly I do not have IIN Gold membership plus I have only signed on in recent days for this single topic alone.
I don't find YOU foolish, just faith itself.
although this conversation was something against my religion but i enjoyed alot .... i tried my best using my knowledge well.... i knew this also that (as i observed) that you are seen only in this category.... mostly .... you would just like to know that you impressed me.. and anytime i'll be glad to share your knowledge and ideas ... DAD...
Please upload this miracle to youtube I'd love to see water change into wine, or how bones and muscles and nervous systems mend themselves in a spit second. As yet no one has provided this evidence, crazy don't you think?
You know I always find it strange when priests (or any religious confused person) say its in god's hands if someone dies of cancer (etc) or not.
But they still agree to chemo and operations scientifically of course. I mean shouldn't priests be running down the street and say don't go to the doctors for any critical illness, its in god's hands if you die or not! What? These priests must be hypocrites I conclude.
It seems the only time a 'miracle' has been said to be done is when AFTER all the chemo or operations, the doctors say they can't do any more (until more advances in science research of course) And then, as if by miracle, they survive!
What? They SURVIVED because everything was previously scientifically done, and only time will help to see if they get better or not.
Otherwise, as stated, religious people wouldn't even go to hospital (of which some religious parents don't take their children to doctors negligently).
I mean why even go to the doctors? Isn't it in god's hands?
Oh that's only when you are TOTALLY utterly desperate, and will try anything. Yes I'm aware that this is the only area that religious people believe miracles have happened.
Religious people are absolute hypocrites.
We live in the space age time, let go of this backward belief system that makes zero natural sense.
Man Made God In His Own Image
I have to say that I'm surprised at your response here - I've read a lot of your comments and you usually give some pretty sound advice.<BR>I am not a hypocrite btw.
I don't accept your 'witnessing' because you may not have heard but there has been ZERO evidence of anything EVER happening to anyone via 'god'. Lol
Yes its all too often we hear of people say I have felt him, or I witnessed it, or something is 'unexplained' None of these mount up to reality though.
You know if I were god (hypothetically speaking) I'd probably come down every single day just so people knew I existed. Seems reasonable when MOST don't believe any longer.
Religion is going out of our society, and good riddance to it. People can now care and help others through normal human kindness and this may confuse you - humanity.
People on Earth - 200,000 years
Life on Earth - 4,600,000,000 Billion years
Humans have been around for a mere 0.004% of the Earth's history.
Oh and our known universe is 13,700,000,000 years old
Oh but man made god in his own image!! Absolute crazy.
Ok may be not crazy - and I only say this for you, but shameful.
Sorry couldn't resist saying that, its the first thing that I thought of.
Anyway, I'd like to thank you for continually staying respectful.
It can be difficult to hold back our feelings on this board at times.
Also note out of all the billions of people in our world, and also the ones that have passed, still no evidence. Must be a very personal thing, what a shame you can't share it.
When you read about known facts and hear things like its common sense we all evolved, and extremely (really 100%) unlikely that any super natural exists watching over us, oh and (only) people get to go to heaven. Dogs, cats, trees all other life, well! They are just there for our enjoyment or food or something? Seriously that's nuts!
Its utter nonsense that people feel this Middle east guy (jesus still a common name there) was the son of god. Lol That is ludicrous. Time to grow up, believing fairy tales are not meant for adults. And the bible story is definitely not meant for children.
Shame religos shame.
You might get some atheists saying it's a book of lies, that it's all made up, but that is a crazy viewpoint too.
I believe that stories of magical and heroic deeds (which had previously been attributed to others, as you will know if you've looked beyond the Bible) came to be attributed to one figure (this often happens in cultures with an oral tradition). I can believe that figure lived. I can believe major events of the Bible occurred and that is a document of huge historical importance.
But I can also accept that in a 2000-year-old game of Chinese whispers played by many people who don't even speak the same language, there is the teensiest, tiniest possibility that it's not 100% completely, entirely, and absolutely free of even the most minor of errors.
I hold science in high regard, but even the records of scientific discoveries are not immune from human tampering for gains. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. The first example that comes to mind is companies that pay off their scientists to try to find "conclusive" discoveries in support of their product or cause that they could use to dissuade the public from suspicion.
I agree with you about the alteration to the texts and when that happened. Occasionally you can see where it's happened.
I'm fascinated by the books of all religions but the bible is a social history as well as historic in the wider sense.
One thing I'm always interested in is when science and the bible work together. Scientifically, we can pretty much prove the great flood, determine where it happened, and even why. If I was religious, though, I might feel squinky about science giving scientific backing to things in the bible.
I know there's absolutely no need for the two spheres of thought to be opposed (and it's my personal opinion that they have the same root) but that's the way it sometimes seems. I wish more people approached it like you and I. I don't think we attack each other about it at all, and I'm always interested in what you say because you come at it calmly and without suspicion.
I believe that my mentality stems from my belief that humans are entirely and eternally flawed and by extension, anything they create will be flawed as well. On that account, whether or not my church or collegues agree with me, I'm nonetheless always willing to accept that anything created by the hands of a human is fallible no matter how air tight it may seem.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, that religion and science as well as every academia can live together in harmony. All knowledge is wonderful. Personally, I see science (by which I mean the observable processes of nature and the possibilities of which) as God's gift to man as a means to understand his creation. Like an artist showing his work to.the world, there's a little bit of God and the universe in everything. I'm sure I don't have to explain to you the wonders of the mechanisms of cells and how they bear such similarity to what has been invented by humans...
Whether you chock it up to a Supreme Creator or to the magic that is in nature in and of itself is your personal choice that I feel no need to judge. I'm just happy that I'm not the only person that can appreciate both "worlds".
I disagree. If you believe your God is PERFECT, you CANNOT throw out some of the rules, simply because you don't like them, such as killing disobedient children (something Jesus approved of btw).
I know people who "believe" but I don't know anyone who follows the bible literally and entirely. I would never say they are non-believers, though.
"I know people who "believe" but I don't know anyone who follows the bible literally and entirely. I would never say they are non-believers, though."
Same here. I also wouldn't say they are non-believers. What I WOULD say however, is that they are being kinda illogical. Don't they believe a PERFECT being inspired their book?
As an irreligious person I think I can cherry-pick the good stuff (yes that is subjective, I know) from the Bible (as from any book) WITHOUT being hypocritical. However, when you claim to follow a specific religion, I honestly think you HAVE to follow EVERYTHING in said religion (which isn't even possible in Christianity's case, because of the contradictions).
Strangely, I suppose, there can be a relationship even between atheists and holy books. Parts of the bible make a lot of sense to me. Why would I choose to ignore them just because the book as a whole alludes to some things that I don't believe? There are parts of Islam, and many Eastern religions that I feel similarly about.
I do believe there's a global truth and many religions tap into it, but are also abused by writers who want power, control or a tourniquet for their insecurities.
I totally agree. For example, though I despise Christianity as a whole as an absurd and immoral religion, I think (tiny) bits of the Bible contain precious gems of wisdom.
Other people have their own stuff going on, I don't worry about the rest of humankind.
better find the one that fits
Better find the one that lights the way for you.
its all about beliefs and the insight of every person....
I personally feel its extremely shameful that people believe 'jesus' was the son of god. Plus your 'Allah' ridiculousness falls into the same category - utter nonsense!
Grow up.
Christianity is pathetic, but Allah? That's just down right abuse. Burn it all.
I hope that was written in your book too? Does the book state to burn it one day? Its all there ;)
... Yes, it is normal.