I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to have children. I have asked everyone I know to give me some good reasons to have children and not one person has given me a reasonable answer. Anyone?
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Gizzie, I agree with you, it's so needless to create more children when the world is so overpopulated now. People are starving already because we have too many people--even if the economy were perfect, everyone was a vegetarian, and food were distributed evenly in all countries, it will get to a point where even that will not be enough to feed everyone.
To you child-crazed people, just because you have a "natural biological instinct" to procreate DOES NOT MEAN that you have to freaking follow it! We're civilized and have high mental functions, don't we? The human race is not going to end in a long time if we procreate less--in fact, it'd be SO much better for the entire world if the population went CONSIDERABLY down. If you want more children then please be responsible about your wish and be altruistic enough to adopt an already-existing child and give him a better life. If you choose to have your own child you're basically ignoring all the other abandoned children and are, in fact, feeding your own selfish desire to just have your bloodline moving along. It does have its own altruistic aspect because of the myriad of things you must sacrifice in order to raise a child, but it is still very selfish at the end of the day--even if it's for "someone else," I bet you wouldn't do it if it didn't make you happy.
I repeat, it may be biological, but that does not mean it's necessary anymore. This is 2010. Not 500 BC.
I mean WHY?? Why on Earth would you WANT to be a parent? There are SO MANY awesome things you can do in your life other than breed kids and spend all your time and money raising them.
You do realize that a kid is going to grow up and become a teenager right? Once they turn 12 years old, they are going to HATE you. They are going to get an attitude with you and want to hang out with their crazy friends and get pregnant and do drugs, etc.
Being a parent is SO MUCH WORK. Good Christ, I mean you are really getting yourself into so much headache if you have a kid.
On the other hand, if you do what my wife and I do you can live on Easy Street. You see, my wife and I both do not want to be parents. It's not that we hate kids, I actually think kids are ok, kind of funny, etc but I DO NOT want to be a parent. Instead my wife and I both earn about $32,000 a year = $64,000 a year. With that money we can do ANYTHING we want. We can travel, buy nice things, go out to eat, etc. We do not struggle at all.
Now, if we had kids, we would be VERY POOR. It takes about $50,000 a year to raise a kid right. By the time you pay for all the medical needs, savings, etc you are going to spend a fortune.
I think most people are just to stupid to realize what they are getting into with having a child.
Let me ask you a question. Did you realize that about nine tenth of the people that have children are totally clueless why they ended up having children? So how are the rest of us, those of us that actually sit down and think before they act, going to shed any light on the primitive behaviors of others?
I just wish people would drop the 'maternal instinct' explanation. Having a maternal instinct is as much as an explanation for reproduction as being hungry is for becoming obese. Most adults rationalize before they act. When it comes to babies, most women render themselves as clueless, irrational and incompetent incubators. Their brains are affected by their maternal instincts, it seems? Well, rather not. Let's take a few steps back from this mass hysteria about motherhood/ parenthood and children, shall we?
- Many contemporary psychological, biological and neurological theories argue against the existence of true instincts in humans. This rationalization seems to be on par with the dramatically inclining birth rates. Coincidence?
- Approximately 40%-60% of the women that enjoyed tertiary education (college or university) in Western countries are never having children. Childfree-ness is a hype in many large Japanese cities. Apparently a significant amount of women decide to remain childless at an early age.
- Many people, fathers and mothers, regret having children. They will not regret the unique bond or relationship with their child [assuming this bond and relationship was established at all] but they do regret all other implications of their choice (poor sex life, permanent body change, debts or financial stress, fatigue and so on).
Unfortunately having children is still correlated with female identity. I have never met another woman who has been able to rationally argue her reasons to become a mother. This is a very sad business indeed.
People are irrational, irresponsible and weak when it comes to all selfish needs and matters. Children are not a means to an end; we've all heard that one before. Unfortunately many parents have children to mend their own broken reality such as failing relationships, youth trauma or depression. Children are not created in their own best interests, as they are not even born yet. There is no such thing as a hypothetical child. What is a hypothetical individual to you? Can you reason with it or ask it about its needs and opinions? You cannot. Therefore, to procreate is an act of pure selfishness. Procreation is about parents, not about children. People should be willing to accept the inflated Disney spirit in their feeble pursuit of happiness before they justify their actions and judge others who refuse to bring a new life into this world. Few parents I've met are bold enough to question their beliefs, fortunately my own parents were not among them.
An interesting related article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-10786279
If I am ever reincarnated (if this is a possibility) I am marching myself right to the Dr.s office, and have the plumbing removed.....You think gee "I can't wait for them to get married and move out"...OH HELL NO it does not end there, that is a whole new level of pain just getting started.
#2 Those who have kids intentionally for a known reason, have stupid reasons. They have kids when there is a lull in their marriage, or they have them to please their parents, or to feel important and accepted when their best friends have been breeding.
#3 What I believe is a very small fraction of parents do have a certain profoundly deep love which bears fruit. They can look at each other and just know with certainty that they want to raise kids together. It's an emotional and physical and spiritual instinct, an intuition which can only be described or observed but not explained.
Of all the couples I have known, perhaps only three or four might be in category #3 above. I have never felt the instinct myself, but I have observed it and know that it exists. My parents did have it.
You won't get a good answer to your question because:
A: There are very few people in category #3 above, and...
B: Those who are in category #3 above, and who have a real and profound reason to have kids, will not be able to articulate that reason to someone else who does not share the instinct.
Over the past few years I have been on a few dating site and find that sadly sooooo many young ladies want kids. I don't get it.
In the past I have talked to a couple of females who were okay with the idea of not having kids.
It would just be nice to have a young lady who had a posstive view on life and wanted to be HAPPY without kids.
Concerning sleeping beauty87's comments. It's it odd that people RUSH into having kids and then send the next 18-21+ year waiting for the day they get their kid(s) out the door and can be CHILD-FREE again?
adopt a child! i was adopted, if i wasn't my bio parents would have ended my life before i was to be 5..
give life. love a child!
Angel
It is interesting that many ppl who believe having a kid is necessary in their life but reject to use their brains thinking WHY. Why do people want to have children? Because they Should have children. That's begging the question, LOL.
There's several GOOD reasons NOT to have one.....But there's not one good reason TO have one.
The short version is for the number of children that are born in the world, compare that to the number that were planned.
I wish people would use contraception.
I ask all of you who mentioned how annoying and what a pain in the ass children are...it's not the child's fault, that is down to bad parenting.
-dirt dobbler
we went too far to turn back now -.-
humans are going to die out sooner or later...
we can't just tell people to stop making kids now...
if we do then something big would obviously happen...
i don't even want kids but yeah we can't just tell the rest of the world to stop makin kids....
i agree with reggie very much so
but hey... who's gonna stop the people in the #1 or #2? nobody...
it's like racism or discrimination we can tell people to stop but it just won't go away
don't take my opinion too seriously i have the mind of a stupid kid
but just throwing it out there
it's 100% completely, totally SELFISH.
They are nothing but a drain on the economy and world. They are little pains in the ass, and thats ALL they are. No, the bloodline thing isnt a good answer either. because you have family that are an extension of you. they're your blood line.
its ridiculous to have a child. there's no good reason. You wanna know what every SINGLE PERSON i have ever asked why they had/want a kid has told me???????
"I WANTED one.."
uh, sorry, thats not a good reason...
Determinism is interesting,but I think you are more motivated by human flaw,and how to repair it. Just a thought here,if we were to have a society that you dream of the only thing that's even close is a Totalitarian state,say just one country was like this,doesn't matter which one. Don't you think that over time,mans ability to move forward intellectually would discontinue? I mean if children were raised in an isolated facility,they wouldn't be able to adjust to change,they would just be trapped in a government induced comfort zone,and so would the rest of that country. In order for you to attain more knowledge,and improve life,would we not have to deal with change? So we'll just say this state became an impeccable corporation. Just like other forms of government,the society will fail if balance isn't kept. Every human emotion has to have it's opposite. You can't have pain,without pleasure, or happiness,but no sadness. You can't have hate,but no love. Most importantly in this imaginary,perfect world you couldn't have power,without weakness. I'm sure you don't believe anything of the sort,but as time progressed I wonder what people would look forward to,or if they could even think what more life could bring to them? Since the thought of free will would be out,to be controlled,and not have the ability to choose for yourself,or have any knowledge of the past I think in itself would be ignorant,and the organized society would go astray as a result of it's own arrogance.
A:) they're following what society says is normal. So, they have kids to be "normal".
B.) They were too dumb/horny/uneducated about sex to think of using a condom. They were too embarrassed to use contraception. They were never educated about it. They got caught up in the moment and simply forgot. They didn't put on a condom right, use contraception right, or were too rough.
C.) To be like their friends. I've had several friends who got pregnant cause their bestie did and they wanted to be like their bestie/have their kids be besties/ or have their kids fall in love.
D.) They get pressured by parents to have kids or grandparents or family members or their partner. So they give in.
E.) They truly wanna be parents cause of something like what they claim "maternal instinct" or Deep love or just a want for a child of their own.
F.) They find they're pregnant and are against abortions or adoptions so they decide to keep it.
G.) Others around them have kids and they feel left out and un-normal so they want to fit it.
I myself don't want kids. I may adopt cause there are so many kids in need of homes. But I just can't picture a strange thing growing in me and moving. I don't have the time, due to work. Andd, with my disability I could never care for one. I have trouble caring for myself sometimes >.<
If religion is your guidance on the subject of children, then I hope you follow the bible and kill your disobedient children.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 to kill their disobedient children with stones.
"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him.
Old Testament
-dirt dobbler
Now to answer your questions.
Q. How do I know what the mind is capable of?
A. I don't know what the human mind is capable of. I only know, partially, what my own mind is capable of.
Q. What do I base 'smarts' on?
A. I simply follow my own evolutionary, logical, and preprogrammed reactions to the stimuli that bombard my senses on a relatively consistent basis while attempting to reprogram my mind when failure is the result of my reactionary responses. So I guess that is my answer. I believe intelligence is based on the success or failure of the intellectual reactionary outcomes relating to processed stimuli. Personal adaptation is another good example. Predicting the outcome of certain actions, and avoiding what is likely going to cause a great amount of difficulty without an adequate amount of gain and basing your decisions on these logical findings often helps to advance these decision-making skills of an individual.
Q. What is my ideal civilization?
A. My ideal civilization would never exist. My standards are far too high to allow for such a thing. I'll have to make a compromise and give you an example of a less than ideal society that is still far better than what we currently have. First off, sexual reproduction would obviously be eliminated all together. There would be no need for reproduction in the short term, as the older humans died off and the human population reduced to a sustainable level for natural planetary redevelopment. This would give us an adequate time to experiment with extracorporeal reproduction techniques and come up with the best means to reproduce for the betterment of the human race. Next, we would need to begin incorporating technology into the biology of the human being to develop superior abilities. As more and more technology was enhanced to heighten out abilities, we would become less and less dependent on biological functions. We would take the best of both worlds and merge them into one. As this continued to progress, there would be less and less of a need to reproduce altogether, as our lifespan would be nearly eternal. With this would come a superior knowledge of the universe which would lead us to space travel and exploration. We would become masters of the universe and evolve all the inferior biological species%%u2019 we come in contact with so that they could know what it%%u2019s like to reach the pinnacle of conscious development. If they didn%%u2019t comply with superiority, we would enslave them to work in our mining facilities or force them to evolve like us for the betterment of themselves. We would be as close to God as we could be; always striving for pure logic and perfection. That would be ideal and possibly realistic.
I know I'm probably becoming quite annoying at this point,but I find your point of view very fascinating. Another question if i may? Setting aside the whole evolutionary process,because we can't say for sure whether or not are emotions will change,grow,or deteriorate with time. So my quetion is some people weren't "blessed" with intelligence, so how would you surpass that obstacle in order to achieve the pinnacle of perfection?
-dirt dobbler
As I've put forth in my scenario above, people would eventually be fitted with cybernetic implants to avoid any intellectual shortcomings. Obviously, it will take some time to develop this technology, so what shall we do with these people until that time arrives? The first step should be an attempt to educate such individuals while checking for any underlying conditions which may halt the development of their intelligence. Society, no doubt, would need its 'worker bees' to serve its causes, so perhaps they could be fitted into one of those positions which don%%u2019t require a heightened intellectual capacity. They would obviously be sterilized first so they cannot reproduce and cause another infestation. If all else fails, or the subjects are resistant, perhaps they should be isolated within a different social collective; one which they can develop and operate themselves until sufficient developments are made to reintegrate them into the main social collective.
I was thinking about this today at work(obviously b/c I have no life),and asking other people what they thought about the main subject when it comes to children,and I went even deeper into the subject of what you were talking about. Of course everybody had the same response,what would the world be like without children? I came up with something different though,I thought what would children do without parents? I was thinking along the lines on your thoughts for tomarrow. A parental unit? yes what would we do without them? A good quarter of parents all throughout the world I'd say abuse physically and/or sexually,degrade, or even abandon their children on a daily basis,but what If in the future the world was like what you envisioned? I mean how would life be formed without sex,you can't create life,so what we'd have a place for test tube babies or something? would they all be raised by robots or monks? I just think taking away man's natural desires,and his emotional impulses,would ultimately result in loss of free will,and self expression. Taking away man's way of conception would be a crime against humanity,of course ridding sex would stop rape,but you're forgetting the bond between mother,father and child,and how phenomenal the birthing process truly is.
My main reasoning behind even thinking that we are still in the dark,despite our technology is because anything natural,such as-food,herbs,and chemicals in things like medicines that man touches makes the world more complicated,and deadly.If we can't even make products safe enough to use on an everyday basis, or make food safe enough for ourselves to eat,or come up with a solution to end starvation,or even get along with each other,we are much delayed in progression. Technology builds upon the hostility of man,it came too fast for people to latch on,and use for better potential.
Computers,yea I don't really get how they work entirely,and I don't think that makes me any less of a person. Although I do enjoy using my computer,as I learn new things from the vast information from it's continuously growing data base,but learning the components,and basic construction of a computer or machine is just like a mechanic learning about new parts on a car,or a veterinarian learning a new technique on a knee replacement for a dog,it's just something else to occupy our time with. I say the more you learn, the more you realize, you know very little. In other words,you can't filter out people who choose to commit crime,it's in our nature to rebel. You can't change the patterns of your brain,you maybe able to open the doors to your mind a little bit more,but you can't change what's already there. The human body is fragile,we turn to dust,and become part of the earth when we die,we cannot live forever,we would have to "evolve" into something with a harder external,and our internals could not be fleshly at all.If that were to happen if we were to have a highly,sophisticated universe filled with limitless wisdom,and life,what would be the point of life? What would be the point in structure,and government or any organization if you couldn't go any further?
-dirt dobbler
The fragility of the human body is the reason that I would propose the development of artificial organs and cybernetic implants. Eventually, we would become similar to robots. If my brain could be extracted and placed into a robotic body, that would be ideal. I have no need for humanity in its current form.
-dirt dobbler
"Normal" has changed over the decades. The biological has remained constant so far.
-dirt dobbler
Go take your bible and shove it up your cooter.
I, on the other hand, am the eternal optimist. I believe technology and societal structure can indeed make us less primitive, not to mention make our lives much greater and less painful. All we need to do is embrace the future and reject our past failures.
I don't believe people are generally good. We all have a good nature,and a bad. Some people are satisfied with the right choices,and some people give into temptation,and make the wrong decision. We all have a tendency to steal,to cheat,and lie,rape,or even murder,and we can all develop the desire to actually enjoy doing these things,or ignore them all together,it's implanted in us somehow,someway. As far as our future is concerned,ironically it rests in the hands of our children,who will make those same choices we have to make,and it will be up to them whether or not we cease or prevail.
-dirt dobber
I let logic dictate my actions, not instinct. If you want to live in such a primitive, instinctive society, then I suppose you accept that rape is an adequate and acceptable means of reproduction, as the desire to rape is fueled by that same primitive instinct that has allowed and even forced the human species to breed sexually for so many years. I like to think that I've evolved beyond the need for such instinct (or at least trained my brain well enough to reject the idea if favour of more logical options).
-dirt dobbler
Regardless of what you say, kids are expensive. Perhaps I am possessive when it comes to my money, but why the hell shouldn't I be? I've worked too damn hard for it to waste it on needless things (in my life).
Why wouldn't I want kids?
Here is my top 10 list.
10. Kids are too costly.
9. Kids are too loud.
8. Kids are too messy and unsanitary.
7. Kids attract more kids.
6. I enjoy my life to much as it is to change it.
5. I have far too much potential to be great to let that go to waste by seeking out the family life.
4. Humans are too flawed, in general, to allow me to procreate. Perhaps if humans were more readily willing to evolve into something greater, I would reconsider.
3. There are too many humans already on this planet, so there is simply no reason to add more.
2. I am antisexual, and therefore could never bring myself to breed.
1. I would go insane and kill myself.
I have many more reasons, but those are the main ones. Call me selfish, and you may be right, but I think it's far more selfish to have kids than to not have kids.
Consider this. Your kids never asked for life. It was your own selfish desire to have kids that brought them into this world. How do you know that you bringing them into this world won't cause them great pain? How do you know they won't cause you great pain? The unknown variables in procreating make it such a risky decision that I would be far too reckless if I decided to have children. And you are being reckless by making that decision as well.
So what's better, a miserable self-centered life, or a miserable life where everything is taken from you? And I'm by no means saying that my life is miserable. I am saying it would be miserable if I had to deal with children on a regular basis. And aren't you being a hypocrite by seeking a selfish, happy existence in which you bring unsuspecting beings into a world they never asked to be brought into rather than a miserable existence in which you don't bother anybody? These are just some things for you to ponder. I await your reply.
As for your reasoning behind not wanting kids, I too used to feel this way,especially during my teenage years. I didn't know what to say to kids,how to act around them,but I'm getting better. Children can be cruel so I thought why bring another demon into the world? I guess having a child,changed my thought towards children. I am an only child,it was very hard for me,and I do think being around adults all the time has caused me to be the way I am now. As far as finding a "mate",as a child I was attracted to boys,but never interested sexually,I still struggle with men now. However I think it's completely normal for couples to want to have children. I personally like the idea of children having a mommy and a daddy,and having a strong bond through good times and bad.I know,I know what can I say?
I find your top ten reasons not to have children to be very amusing,and surprisingly genuine.
In some aspects you are right,you don't really know if bringing a child into the world is better for you,or your child. For-instance,my son,I wonder about him everyday,and my biggest worry is whether or not he'll be like me when I was a kid. Even in daycare he is a loner,and doesn't seem to act like he's interested in playing with other children. He likes them,but he doesn't understand how to play with them. It might be because he's two,and maybe that's normal I don't know,but I just hope he figures out how to make it through school. I also worry that he might be like his father,and be spoiled,greedy,and show know concern for anyone around him. He could disappoint me,he may let me down,I likewise,but he's still my son,and I will always be his mother.
I do however think something in your life happened to you,and I think you might not have a very close relationship with your parents,and siblings. I think you gave your all in a relationship,and they hurt you so bad they didn't have to stab you in the back,they went ahead and stabbed you in your face. I hope you can recover from the past,and learn to understand to just let come whatever may. Children are natural,sex is natural,humans make mistakes,but children are never mistakes. It is not selfish to have a child,because normally you'd give your all,and even your life for your child. By giving the chance to make a better future for anyone,anywhere from your child being born,or allowing your child to choose their own destiny is by far I think one of the greatest selfless acts one could ever accomplish.
-dirt dobbler
Yes, they can be, I was myself.
It is not selfish to have a child,because normally you'd give your all,and even your life for your child."
normally... I think you have an idealized way of looking at parent-child relationships. Maybe its the media that paints such a rosy picture of average family life.
"By giving the chance to make a better future for anyone,anywhere from your child being born,or allowing your child to choose their own destiny is by far I think one of the greatest selfless acts one could ever accomplish."
I think having children is not altruistic in and of itself, because giving them the bst possible life is your responsibility. Adopting children is incredibly altruistic because you are assuming responsibility and not creating it.
Seriously, you need to think of the big picture, not just of your ideal world.
RE: Commitment:
I don%%u2019t take commitment lightly. In fact, after much consideration, I reject it all together, at least in the sense of romantic relationships. I%%u2019ve never been in one, nor will I ever be in one, as I%%u2019ve seen what they can do to people. I also reject breeding in its current standard form.
You say that you were never sexually interested, yet you still had a child. How and where did that change? There%%u2019s the fundamental difference between us, and the reason I believe your logical processes have been altered and tainted as a result. You bred, you had a child, and then your ideals changed as a result. It doesn%%u2019t take half a brain to realize the connection. If I avoid such acts, my situation won%%u2019t end up being as dire as your own. I came to that conclusion long ago.
RE: My family relationships:
As a religious person, how do you get off being so judgmental? You seem to think you know everything about me, yet you know nothing. I have a very close relationship with my mother. I have no relationship with my dad, as he died long ago, but we were close while he was alive. His death was expected and wasn%%u2019t traumatic. I accepted that reality and moved on with my life. As I stated earlier, I%%u2019ve never been in a romantic relationship. With regards to letting things come as they may; I do that to a large degree. It%%u2019s in my nature to reject things that could dramatically alter and destroy everything I have worked for in my life. I agree that children are never mistakes though. Children come as the result of the cause and effect relationship that rules the universe. As a sentient being, it is my job to try and predict those cause and effect relationships and decide what is best. Nothing is completely predictable, however, I think I have a good enough grasp on the physics behind the way things work to know what%%u2019s beneficial for me and those around me and what isn%%u2019t.
It%%u2019s obvious that you and I will never agree regarding selflessness and selfishness, but that%%u2019s fine. You don%%u2019t understand what I%%u2019m saying, and I can accept that. I wish you the best, regardless of our differences of opinion.
-dirt dobbler
-dirt dobbler
And being a kid once has nothing to do with wanting a kid. Maybe being a child and knowing what they are like is a deterrent to people who have other plans.
The current world population, as of September 2007, is believed to have reached over 6.6 billion. The world's population is expected to reach over 9 billion by the year 2050. How much longer do you think the planet can comfortably sustain this overgrowth of humans?
I regret to say this as I have children of my own whom I love dearly but at this point, it's very difficult to justify bringing more children into the world, given all of the circumstances involved with carrying for them in addition to the burden on an already overcrowded planet. And the sad truth is that many people have children not because they really want them, but because they feel it's the "natural" thing to do and also, that they will be ostracized if they don't go along with what's supposed to be one of the most important experiences in the whole range of human growth and maturation processes.
It takes a brave person nowadays to stand up the established norms in this area and say, "To hell with it -- I'm talking care of myself and MAYBE a significant other -- but I'm not raising another human for 18 years when it's hard enough just to keep myself in good order." And before anyone jumps on me, I'm NOT suggesting you're a jerk for having kids or wanting to have kids. I'd be quite the hypocrite if I did since I have several of my own. But I AM saying that those who chose not to reproduce should be praised for their choice. It's a brave stance, and one that ultimately will ease the pressure on an overpopulated world with far too many children suffering from starvation, neglect, abuse of all kinds, and just lack of being wanted in the first place.
if we don't have kids then life will end.
you don't find that to be a reason?
Oh really? Do you know that studies always contradict you on that one? Childfree couples stay together longer and are overall more satisfied both with their relationship and with their lives than those who have kids.
Having kids is a surer way of getting a divorce than not having them.
I read somewhere, that in a study that they did, couples were HAPPIEST BEFORE the first child was born, and AFTER the last one left the house!!!!!
now, does that sound like raising children brings you closer together to you all?