'that vegan teacher'

I'm an equestrian, my sisters are equestrians, my father, my grandfather, and my great grandfather were mounted police. My mother took part in the cattle/horse drive for ten years in our town, and my grandma was the first woman in her town to start mounted shooting, and she married a man who was in the equine science field.

I've been around horses all my life and I know all their individual kinks and personalities.

I know most horses in and out.

But I am also a vegan.

I have been for many years now... eight years out of my almost twenty three year old life.

I care if you eat meat, but I'm not going to press veganism on you like some people do with religion. That's proselytism. And it's wrong. Just like pressing veganism is wrong.

I can cook with meat, I can be in the same room as meat, and If I happen to smell the typical 'turkey or beef' aroma, I won't double over and gag my intestines out and then use 'oh I'm a vegan' as fucking excuse.

A few weeks ago, a friend of mine sent me this video of an older woman calling herself 'that vegan teacher'

she watches a video of a man riding his horse down a road, and she promptly states that riding horses is abusive.

That it's exploitation.

That it's not vegan.

She also said that when horses get injured, they get murdered... uhm, my bank account disagrees. Balor's never been injured while I'M riding him.. the only time he was ever injured was when he was in the pasture and he slipped and chipped his knee bone doing stupid horse shit.

and then she actually had the fucking AUDACITY to say that horses won't run in straight lines on their own, and that they don't actually want to be ridden, but they just can't tell us that.

I call bullshit.

You know why?

Because if my goddamn horse didn't want to be ridden, he could kick the living shit out of me. He's a massive, 1,300 lb, 6 year old Thoroughbred x Irish Draft.

16 HH.

His thighs are the size of my fucking torso.

His hooves, are the size of a fucking dinner plate.

Those damn things could crush my skull.

If he didn't want to be ridden, he could tell me.

Not with words, not with violence, but with body language.

Because we have a deep, soul binding bond that no one else can have. If any of you have ever studied biology, you'd recognize the word mutualism. Balor and I have a mutualistic bond. And if he didn't want to be ridden, he'd tell me.

And I'd understand...

And I wouldn't get on him.

Simple as fucking that.

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Edit: Also, this fucking bitch (that vegan teacher), made her damn dog go vegan and the poor thing's nose is now discoloured.

have we found a hypocrite? I think so.

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Comments ( 23 )
  • dirtybirdy

    Tell that bitch I said neigh. And please hug Balor for me😁

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    • SomewhereNorth

      I will. He loves hugs.

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  • SmokeEverything

    I dont get that part of veganism. Like if you swing into a voodoo ritual on a rope and save a bunch of chickens from being sacrificed, bring them home with you and take care of them, you can't eat the eggs that they're laying anyway.

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    • SomewhereNorth

      Yeah, and then when you point out that you can't eat their eggs, said vegan goes 'wElL aT lEaSt I sAvEd ThEm'

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      • SmokeEverything

        Yeah exactly like the eggs are just gonna get thrown away anyway...

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  • bigbudchonga

    I think you are bang on right, it's not abusive. You sound rational and resonable, but I would disagree with you on one point. You're not dealing with a hypocrite; you're dealing with a new age "religious" fanatic.

    I can fully understand why you would want to pull your hair out at the ignorance of the "vegan teacher" and how if she was in front of you then you would probably describe well and logically, as you have done here, why your point is indeed right and how her reasoning is flawed.

    But I can tell you this, you'd be even more frustrated after you finished that discussion, because it doesn't matter how resonable and rational you are here. You're dealing with someone who is sticking to a doctrine devoid of sense. Just as people couldn't talk sense to witch hunts in ages past, you can't reason with the the modern equivalent of religious fanatics today. They know what they see, and in her mind that is 100% animal abuse. People like that are infuriating, and unfortunately they seem to be about in every era.

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  • Boojum

    I can recognise a horse when I see one, I know what a saddle and bridle are, and I know that a horse's height is measured in hands (whatever that means), but that's about my limit of equestrian knowledge. However, I can relate, since I'm a beekeeper, and vegans despise me too.

    The fact that I put money and effort into providing bees with a comfortable, safe, healthy home, and that they then go on to pollinate crops eaten by vegans as well as by lots of little furry and feathered wild critters doesn't matter to them. In their simple, black and white world, the fact that I also take honey which is in excess of what the bees will need to get through the winter makes me an evil person in their eyes.

    Bees don't have the potential for extreme violence that horses do, but if a beekeeper doesn't care for them properly, the colony will either die out or find a better home and all fly away.

    I don't much care for meat, and there are many things about modern livestock farming that I think are wrong on several levels, but many vegans don't look any different to me than the members of any cult: they have a simplistic view of the world, proclaim things as undeniably true when they have very little real knowledge of the topic, see themselves as missionaries and are frequently self-righteous to the point of sanctimony.

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    • SomewhereNorth

      Yes, I agree, many vegans are extremists. And yes, many vegans would harp on you for being a beekeeper, but you know what?

      Fuck them.

      Fuck them and their distorted view of the world.

      If it weren't for you and you fellow beekeepers, we'd all be screwed n' damned.

      So, thank you, I appreciate you and the work you do to keep us all alive and healthy. (And the bees, can't forget about the bees!)

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  • litelander8

    Ah. Horse people.

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    • LloydAsher

      I wonder what they thought of the bojack mask?

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    • SomewhereNorth

      Ah. Non-Equestrian.

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  • Somenormie

    She's an annoying bug.

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    • SomewhereNorth

      Spot on, my friend, spot on.

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      • Somenormie

        Even other vegans hate her.

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        • SomewhereNorth

          I'm sure. She's a fuckin' nuisance

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  • bbrown95

    I am an equestrian as well! I know nothing about this vegan teacher and have no desire to, but have seen the name around a couple of times.

    TBH, most so-called "animal rights activists" and militant vegans tend to like to try to act as an authority on animals they know nothing about and have likely not even seen in person before. They base their pseudo-science on anthropomorphization, purely anecdotal evidence based off of very limited experience, and biased sources from people trying to push an agenda or sell something.

    Have you seen some of the self-proclaimed "horse trainers" who are always screeching about everything being abuse on YouTube as well (you know, the usual shrieking about bits and competitive riding sports)? Same thing with them. Only, while they've actually seen horses IRL and own and ride them, they seem to have very limited experience and very poorly educated, have poorly trained and pushy, disrespectful horses, and their riding and horsemanship skills seem to be that of beginners/novices and nowhere near "expert trainers". But, they're still convinced they are light-years better than actual experts and should be able to tell others what to do with their horses, but God forbid anyone do the same to them!

    I would just roll my eyes and quit watching or listening to any of those people, which is what I did a long time ago (despite still getting YouTube recommendations for the two better known wannabe trainers on there). There is no convincing them, they all seem to have some sort of mental instability anyway, and there will always be people out there like that. You can't do much to change the minds of the people who follow and believe those people, anyway. I just feel sorry for the animals at those people's mercy who are more concerned with their feel-good agenda than actually doing what is best for them, and when it comes to the "trainers", the beginners who lack the experience to discern fact from BS and believe some of the dangerous advice they are fed.

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    • SomewhereNorth

      Oh! It's great to see another equestrian on the site! What discipline do you do? I'm in cross country and hunt seat.

      And yes, I've seen those internet trainers that try to devalue the experts to make themselves look better. Like Clinton Anderson for example. In one of his 'clinic videos' he beat the shit out of a horse.

      The owners said it was agressive but I kept watching the poor thing and there wasn't one shot of aggression in him.
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      As for the people that don't agree with bits; I can see where It can cause harm to a horse's mouth and face if you ride with heavy hands or if the nosepiece is too tight, but completely disregarding the use of bits and saying their abusive makes people sound, well, delusional. I ride Balor with a comanche coil (a neck rope) sometimes, and it's just as easy as riding him in a bit, but that's because I treat them differently.

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      • bbrown95

        Yes, it is great to see another equestrian on here indeed! I do the hunters, and the occasional trail ride (which I wish I could do regularly again)!

        I've seen a few videos of his that rubbed me the wrong way as well. I don't like his attitude, either. The statement he released when a client's horse died on his property a few years ago and people were wanting to know details (which is normal for prospective clients, as who would want to send their horse to him if it was something that could've been easily avoided and not a freak accident?) was utterly unprofessional and turned me completely off of him, along with how he gets too carried away with his "corrections" and can be a bit of an aggressive rider IMO at times. Unfortunately, there are some that are even worse than him (but thankfully only "trainers" in the YouTube world out of their backyard and not ones anyone pays to train their horse or attend clinics with!). Both of the ones I still get recommendations for seem to have only really worked with their own horses for the most part, and their horses' ground manners and how they go under saddle say a lot about those people's abilities as trainers. It frightens me that they tell beginners not to wear helmets and give other dangerous advice (one recommends hard tying a horse who pulls back in a rope halter; very easy way to cause a horse to break its neck!).

        I absolutely agree. The vast majority of bits are only as harsh as the rider's hands, and any sort of bitless bridle or other piece of tack can be harsh when misused as well. Ironically, the people who maintain that all bits are bad no matter what seem to be the ones with the harshest hands, whose horses' noses are always in the air while they yank on their bitless bridle/rope halter/whatever. They describe bits as "metal pain devices" and the like and maintain that a bit causes pain by just sitting in a horse's mouth, or that they're automatically harsher than any bitless setup because they're made of metal, despite the obvious that a hackamore with 10" shanks or one of those sidepulls/hacks with the twisted wire nosebands is going to be quite a bit harsher than a smooth mouth D-ring snaffle. To be honest, a lot of those people are completely naive to how tack even works, which is a big part of their problem with why they likely have issues with it, themselves.

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  • JellyBeanBandit

    I don't think that your horse necessarily doesn't want to be ridden, he might even enjoy it, it's just that he can't consent to being ridden. So if he ever didn't want to be ridden, he wouldn't have a choice about it, he'd be forced to. I know that being ridden isn't a big deal, but it's the principle of being forced to do anything you don't want to do, it's slavery honestly. I know that sounds dramatic since the word 'slavery' conjures up images of whippings and literal back-breaking labour. But the basic definition of slavery is where someone is owned by another person and forced to do whatever that person says, whether they like it or not. So even if your horse is happy to be ridden, it's the principle that he has no choice but to be happy about it that vegans have a problem with.

    It's like back when slavery existed, there were examples of some slaves being treated well and living happy lives, but the reality of their position would always hit home when they were asked to do something that they didn't want to do. They couldn't refuse. Even if it was just some trivial task, that would've been such a degrading thing to realise. All they could do was to try to feel less degraded by rationalising to themselves that it wasn't such a big deal really, it was only a small task and things could be much worse for them. In the end it might've hit them that their entire life's outlook was built on rationalising that things "weren't so bad really", just in order to avoid facing up to the bitter reality that they were still ultimately a slave.

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    • SomewhereNorth

      Ehmm. I see what you're getting at, but like I said, I can emotionally feel when Balor doesn't want to be ridden. I can tell when something's off, when he doesn't feel well, is having a bad day etc.

      I know him like the back of my hand.

      And I don't really think slavery can be compared to equestrianism. If the horse is being treated in such a way, or the owner/rider doesn't understand the horse, isn't communicating with the horse, or is straight up nasty, that's where problems arise. Equestrianism and Horsemanship is a give and take sport and lifestyle, whereas slavery is all take.

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      • JellyBeanBandit

        Ok, I don't know too much about equestrianism tbh. Don't they hit horses with riding crops in equestrianism though? I can't see any way that could be seen as being part of a mutual respect relationship. Or is that just in horse racing? I definitely have a problem with the horse racing industry anyway. Any industry where animals can win money for people usually has a lot of animal abuse in it. They'll train the animal to the breaking point, pump them full of steroids, punish them for failing, anything to win that money.

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        • No, that's okay! Riding crops are used in a lot of disciplines, it just depends on the equestrian. I've never used them, as I grew up with the new way of riding. There's a documentary you should watch, it's called Buck. the guy is like magic, and one of my favorite things he says is 'if you can ride with 90% mental, and 10% physical, you're better off.' I believe that wholeheartedley, and I try to do exactly that. He also says to operate on the same wavelength on a horse 'to operate on a feel'.

          As far as horse racing goes, i'm convinced they're all evil people. Anyone who makes an animal run until it's legs break or it's heart bursts can crawl up and die a horrible death for all I care.

          (Buck, 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eB263Go2_4 )

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          • JellyBeanBandit

            Nah I don't see how they could be. Even if they're not that painful (which I'm sure they are if they're used for BDSM stuff), it'd still be unpleasant for the horse. Using pain to get a horse to do what you want is anything but a loving respectful relationship in my eyes.

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