Am i a bad person for being pro-choice?
| yes | 27 | |
| no | 143 |
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NeuroNeptunian
No.
You're thinking reasonably and constitutionally.
I am anti-abortion. I hate it, it disgusts me, and I don't know if I ever could do it myself. I am pro-choice. Why?
The 1st Amendment that gives me the right to practice my religion and abide by my moral code free of persecution? It gives others the right not to practice my religion and live by my moral code.I can believe whatever the hell I want. But I'm not going to tell others what to believe much less force them to practice it.
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Corleone
If more people thought like you, there'd be a lot less shit on internet fora. Amen.
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[Old Memory]
Most do think that way, it breeds many problems and conflicts too. Soft liberal stances sound good but have hidden dangers. Whats described is just the growing typical "politically correct" point of view, a view that "sounds" best, fair and understanding.
These types of view are the most popular and gaining popularity everyday, so why is the world getting worse and worse with it, i doubt it's coincidence. I was a very liberal person myself until i saw what it's really doing.Comment Hidden ( show )-
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NeuroNeptunian
Hey, if someone wants to prevent the birth of a child that they most likely will not be able to raise properly and will most likely burden the public school system and the government welfare system for a good amount or the entirety of it's existence... I'm not going to stop them. As a woman, that child will not be my direct responsibility.
I just wouldn't do it myself. My birth control is working quite nicely, my husband and I are self-sustaining, we're better off than many couples that have children nowadays.
I'm just glad I've never been put in that kind of situation. I understand it quite well. I've been exposed to very diverse groups of people living very diverse lifestyles from my own. The second I decide that it is OK to push my religion and system of beliefs on others as what to live by is the second that I do my religion and morality a disservice. I think the penal good is a good enough code to live by for those of us that choose to live unaffiliated.
That's my stance that I have formed throughout the years and until experience changes it otherwise, it is the one that I will choose to keep.
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Corleone
One view shouldn't get unquestionable superiority over the others. You shouldn't force your beliefs on other people. Neuroneptunian wasn't promoting liberalism, she was promoting tolerance. Liberalism isn't the only political party that's pro-choice.
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Avant-Garde
If only more people in this country thought like you! Can you imagine how much better this country would become?
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lolol555
Exactly what Corleone said. If everyone could think like you, society would be a hell lot better of.
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Avant-Garde
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thestocker
im pro-choice in everything except when it comes to whether people have sex with me
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thecoldhardtruth
Youre basically asking, "is it bad that I have my own personal thoughts and beliefs on something?" no, of course that doesn't make you a bad person!
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BlackDays
No. I was always pro-life until I got older and saw how fucked and overpopulated the world is. I still don't think I could ever have an abortion myself, but people can choose for themselves, as long as its not their twisted form of birth control.
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You can't legislate morality!!
May not be YOUR choice, but you shouldn't try to tell others what to do, not everyone shares the same values.
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Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
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shade_ilmaendu
If you never existed, you wouldn't know either way. As far as I see it, if you're considering abortion murder then masturbation is genocide.
Even then that's kind of a bad analogy, but a funny one. Basically my point is that there is a fetus, and there is a baby, and the difference is whether or not it can survive outside it's mothers womb. There is a cutoff date for abortions, you know. They can't actually kill a baby, only terminate an early pregnancy. Not the same thing.
I don't think it's a decision that should be made lightly. But I think ending a potential life is the lesser evil to creating a life and sticking it in a shit situation.
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Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
Not really.
male masturbation doesn't affect any fertilized embryos
female masturbation doesn't release eggs periodas for fetus vs baby... by that analogy it should be OK to just cut someone's arm off just because you want to. I mean that arm can't live outside your body so why should your arm have the right to be there anyway? right?
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shade_ilmaendu
I don't think that's really the same thing. You're welcome to your own views, but that's why if you don't like abortions you don't have to have one. Just don't restrict them.
I linked it down below i think. Check out www.imnotsorry.com when you get the chance. Their FAQ was pretty informative.
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[Old Memory]
No, but if a man dare say he wants choice of if he wants to be a parent or not, and that he gets the choice to not take responsibility, then he's such a bad person...
I'm rather differing in this. My opinion is that if someone thinks males having the choice to be a father or not makes you a bad person, then so does abortion. If someone thinks males should have the choice, then I believe abortion should be allowed.
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thinkingaboutit
Most people don't take this kind of argument seriously because females incur most of the costs of reproduction.
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[Old Memory]
Physically, and it's their choice to go through it. They have the option of not having sex, birth control, abortion, adoption. They have safety nets for "after" they fall pregnant, where as males don't have the option at all to choose if they want to be a father or not.
How does financial abortion take away any rights for the woman to have or abort her child?
So because females deal with the most during reproduction, that means the male doesn't get a choice on if he'll be allowed to not have to take parental responsibility or not, but the female does simply because she has to go through the pregnancy?
Well, how about the military and most jobs in society? Most males die from their services due to them doing most of the dangerous jobs and being put in the most dangerous situations, men fought the wars and suffered most from wars to keep their countries from being invanded, and more males today are put in more dangerous areas in the military and suffer the most than women.
If it's a case of "one party suffers the most, so the others shouldn't be given the same choice, then females shouldn't be allowed to do nearly as much the male gender does due to them taking "most" of the pain and suffering to defend and keep society going? Same logic.
Now I don't agree with that (to say I do would be to say I believe what you said is right), but that is the same logic process as your reply to me is.
(Being respectful, I would appreciate it if you were too and gave your opinions that differ from mine in a calm manner like I'm giving you).
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[Old Memory]
A thumbs down, yet no actual points to explain why I'm at all wrong...Typical.
I hope most people on IIN don't have a role in law. "You make sense, but I don't like you, so I'll dissagree with you anyway".
-Yawn- IsItNormal community, you're becoming illogical, over emotional, and boring.
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nAt2017
Or perhaps they gave you a thumb down just because they honestly disagreed with you. It's normal for you to believe that your opinions are correct, but that doesn't meant that everyone else is illogical, over-emotional, and boring. They have a right to their opinions as much as you have a right to yours.
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The fact that every law and society in existence opposes what you propose is proof enough of why you're wrong and an idiot. if only YOU could see that.
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Men DO have a choice....NOT have sex....or protect yourself. Simple. Same choice women have. Yes, women can have an abortion after the fact....but HELLO, not all women believe in it or would do it, so it's NOT a choice for ALL women.
Why is that so hard to understand for you?? Something that you'd never do is NOT a choice, or an option, for you. Let's say you hate sushi. Are you going to order sushi at a restaurant? No, of course not. You wouldn't even CONSIDER it. Because that's NOT an option for you. It wouldn't even cross your mind. Get it?? Get that through your thick skull.
Just because abortion is legal and a legal 'option' that's available to women, doesn't mean it's an ACTUAL option for EVERY woman personally. It's legal to drive, and that's an OPTION. Some take advantage of it, some don't. You aren't FORCED to drive. How do you not get this??
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[Old Memory]
We've had this discussion before. I'm going to reply to this message, and most likely not reply to ther next one you give. I have already read the first paragraph and remembered making a perfectly logical counter point.
That counter point was that it is "her" beliefs, so "she" suffers the concequences of "her" beliefs. If she doesn't want the concequences, then she doesn't need ot follow her beliefs. It is still a choice, it's a choice because it is a legal possibility. Just because she doesn't believe in it doesn't mean she doesn't have the choice, it just means she's not taking the option. WHat about men? Surely not all men would believe in financial abortion, so we should allow them to have financial abortion, and there will be males that don't believe in it, so don't do it. Same thing. If women are not allowing themselves to have an abortion when they are legally allowed to, then that's "their" problem. They still have the choice, regardless if they'll want to choose, where as males don't even get that option.
SO why don't we let men have financial abortion? Then they will have the choice just as much as women do, and there will be ones that don't agree to it, so don't do it ,just like women.It's not hard for me to understand, it's the fact that it's not a logical reason to say why males shouldn't be allowed financial abortion. Simply because some women don't "choose" to have an abortion because of their beliefs doesn't mean males should be crippled from being able to make the same choice.
Yes, it is a choice. SImply because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it isn't a choice, it means you're against one of the options in the choice, but that doesn't mean they can't choose that choice. I choose to be a meat eater because it is in my belief that humans are supposed to, does that mean I don't have the choice to become a vegetarian? Ofcourse not. You are once again acting like I don't understand this at all, when you are not understanding that just because you are against something, doesn't mean you aren't given the choice. "They" choose not to choose one of the options in the choice, that's "their" problem, not everyone elses.Comment Hidden ( show )-
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[Old Memory]
Like I keep saying if "she" believes it's wrong, that's her choice, not everyone elses. I hate sushi...Ok? The option is still there for me to choose the sushi. Simply because I don't like sushi doesn't mean sushi still isn't on the menu for me, it just means that I am choosing not to choose the sushi, and it doesn't mean I'm going to stop the person eating at the same table from ordering sushi, why? Because it is "my" individual belief that sushi doesn't taste good, not everyone elses at the table.
Once again, you're saying simply because some don't "choose" the option of an abortion, that means nobody else should be allowed.Once again, I mention this to you. "If she is against abortion, then she can put the child up for adoption". So either way, she still has the choise to not have to take the responsibility of parenthood.
Don't even try to imply I'm the stupid one in this case. I have made countless points on this matter with you that you fail to counter.
It's a "choice" if you don't like the options on the choice, then "you" have to deal with the concequences of "your" beliefs.
So your logic here is that men shouldn't be allowed financial abortion because of a percentage of female "beliefs". "Oh how logical. Hey, you can't do that because I don't agree with it".
I get it fine and well, you're just too arrogant and short minded to realize that if an individual is against something because of "their" beliefs, then "they" have to deal with the concequences of "their" beliefs, not everyone else.
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I know your 'beliefs' well enough, I and everyone else has heard them over and over, and no one agrees with you. If your idea had even an iota of merit, it would be at least in SERIOUS legal process, or be law already. News flash, it's NOT. Not now, won't EVER be. You don't believe me, then go ask a lawmaker or a lawyer, see how hard they laugh at you. But you won't because you have to believe that you're right....and you're NOT. But you don't want to hear it, and you an't see past the end of your own nose to even truthfully investigate the matter legally and the repercussions of what such a law would create. You just decide to get your "facts" from some crackpot website that "agrees" with you....that site is a joke. It's comparable to a neo-Nazi or KKK site. NO ONE takes those sites or views seriously. There's NOTHING wrong with having a mission or a view, but you can't get your information from such a biased source, or one single source. Always do more research, and ALWAYS consider the source. You're being duped. Talk to real professionals, in the real world.
One major flaw in your "wonderful" idea is...YOU will be paying for other men's kids....kids YOU did not father from a woman you didn't even get to fuck, because there will be more unsupported kids using up social services that are paid for by WORKING people's taxes. So by allowing even ONE man to not support his kid, you FORCE ALL men to carry his burden that he decided to dump on YOU. Do you understand that?? You say you're all about "fair" but this is the MOST unfair thing you can propose to all working people....and ALL men. PLEASE, address that. I don't care if you address anything else in the entire post, just address THAT, OK? Please. Tell me how it's fair??
People, men AND women, need to be responsible for their actions. Period. I get what you're saying, but you have no point, it doesn't make sense morally, socially or legally. Not ONE bit.
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[Old Memory]
No one agrees with me? Speak for yourself, not others. There are plenty that agree with me, and I'll name three of the more known ones. NeuroNeptunian, CoverYourEars, and Lulz. Don't say nobody agrees with me just to make yourself feel like everyone is agreeing with you, and not agreeing with me, because there are plenty that agree with me, and plenty that dissagree with you all together.
I knew it, I knew I would regret replying to you. You've said this all before in a debate with me that took three days, that I won (other users words, not mine).
Remember this marvelous line that you kept trying to avoid?
"We are already paying for other peoples kids, child support comes out of the taxpayers pockets".
I then followed up with the idea - So we don't give the money we use for child support to pay for kids that aren't ours, and give it to everybody to be able to have financial abortion, that means the "taxpayers" benefit from paying their taxes, not a parent and their kid that the taxpayers have no connection to. This way instead of paying for the kids that aren't ours from taxes, the taxpayers money is given to the kids thats parents claimed financial abortion.Exchanging childsupport for financial abortion taxes, which the taxpayers would be happier doing, since "they" actually benefit from "their" taxes.
I have adressed that before plenty of times, it was you that avoided my answer when I gave it, and ignored it when I repeated it constantly.So by not getting the taxpayers money spent on child support, the taxpayers money goes to helping financial abortion, that way the taxpayers actually benefit from getting their taxes spent on child support, to children that aren't theirs.
Not replying to you at all after this. I could of been reasonable in discussing this more with you, but you've done exactly what I knew you would do, you are repeating everying "exactly" the way you did back then. I proved you wrong on the matter then, most of the time you just kept repeating yourself because you "refused" to even acknowledge my taxpayers point, and I am not going on a three day debate with you again that could of been finnished in twenty minutes if you actually acknoweledged the points I made instead of intentionally ignoring it.
Even in your next reply, you will say a little bit about the actual taxpayers point I made here, and back in the older debate, then max the whole comment box out on a completely different matter.
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No, my logic is, it's NOT an option for many women. You're acting like just because it's 'legal' that it's an option. Well, it's NOT. Lots of things are legal, but they're not required. People can own guns, but they choose not to. Should I have the right to force them to get one? Or should my neighbor have the right to force me to get rid of MY guns? Of course not.
You're saying 'abortion is always an option'. I'm saying, no, it's NOT, if the woman doesn't believe in it. It's simply not even a choice for her. No one forced the man to have sex with her and get her pregnant. Perhaps they should've been more careful and discussed their personal beliefs before getting into this situation. You want to protect stupid people?? Fuck that. Stupid gets what stupid deserves.
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[Old Memory]
If it isn't a choice, then why is it that people that didn't believe in abortion have later had abortions? That in itself proves that it is a choice, and it is always an option if they just decide to have it against their beliefs.
Your sushi example, for example. I wouldn't usually order sushi, but if it was the case of eating sushi or starving to death, I would eat the sushi regardless of me believing it is terrible, just like a woman might dissagree with abortion, but when they fall pregnant when they aren't ready for a child, it is either face the responsibility when they aren't ready, or go against their belief and have an abortion, and many have done the latter.Yes, you're saying it's not an option, but you're wrong, plain and simple. The option is "always" there, just because she doesn't believe in taking that option doesn't mean the option isn't there. The fact that if she just automaticly decided to go against her beliefs to get an abortion, the option has always been there for her to do it.
Oh, and the child that then has to be raised by people unable to be real parents just gets fucked in the process, isn't that great, aslong as those stupid get taught a lesson, right?
Let me finnish with this quote I said last comment to you:
"Even in your next reply, you will say a little bit about the actual taxpayers point I made here, and back in the older debate, then max the whole comment box out on a completely different matter." You done that exactly...Now see why I find it just pointless to debate with you? You constantly try to imply I'm stupid, yet you can't handle that I countered your points, so you choose to avoid it. (You'll probably say "You've not countered anything", then not answer when I tell you what things I have countered you on).By now it is aware that I am able to counter all of the points you fling at me.
The sushi, the "It's not a choice", and the taxpayers part.
Didn't I tell you that you would avoid the answer to the question "you" asked me to answer...Again, like last time?
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[Old Memory]
but men do have a choice! they can stop their seed from migrating, also nothing is so black and white most things are grey some of what you say is true and some not, this is the same for all of us, you can be strident in yr beliefs which can bring out stridency in others
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Aleks85
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Captain_Kegstand
I would never want an abortion for my child, but I can understand that there are people out there who are not in the position to raise a child. You are not a bad person for being pro-choice, just a person with an opinion.
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NocturnePonyFan
You can't "know for a fact" that every single woman who has ever had an abortion regretted the decision. I know someone who was extremely happy with her decision to have an abortion. She never once has regretted it. You shouldn't go around making generalizations about all women who have had abortions.
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[Old Memory]
I think it is strange that it is pro life verses pro choice. Life and Choice are not even antonyms but some how they are the oposite...
I WOULD NEVER HAVE AN ABORTION! Due to the fact that I am male and can't get knocked up.
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hahaha...betterlearnfromakid!
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dom180
I'll start out by saying that I am pro-abortion through and through.
However, what I think is that a lot of people say that legislating against abortion is bad because it constitutes forcing your moral views onto someone else. But in a way, isn't that what all laws do? Murder is illegal, but it is likely that not everybody believes that it should be illegal. If they say that we shouldn't legislate based on our own perspective of morality, should we also legalise murder, theft, rape because they are all just applications of morals (albeit morals shared by the vast majority of society).
Obviously I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I do believe abortion should be legal up until a certain time in the pregnancy, but I think it for different reasons than the ones that most "pro-choice" people give.
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Ixu
If there were a local laboratory that accepted fetuses for scientific research, I would deliberately get pregnant, abort and donate on a monthly basis. Cheers to stem cell research!
Ok I totally wouldn't be that crazy, but if someone were to unexpectedly have an unwanted growth in their stomach, I think it is wrong for whomever thinks that person should keep it, and it would be great if instead of just throwing it away, have scientists prod at it :)Comment Hidden ( show ) -
BloodAndFire
Not at all, depending on what your reasoning for being pro-choice is. I'm pro-choice too, but my reason is:
If a woman wants to abort her baby, then she can go ahead and do it. I really don't care; it's her choice. And I don't care whether it be a stranger or a friend. But I know for a fact that every woman whom has aborted a fetus regrets it severely afterwards. Some women have even suffered from major depression because of it.Comment Hidden ( show )