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Ive seen many stories of peoples kids misbehaving, but they refuse to listen when told not to, won’t change their behavior after being yelled at, grounding does nothing, taking away things does nothing, doing what they did right back to them does nothing, and hitting does nothing. Sometimes Ive seen kids get older and still act that way, even after therapy. What are you supposed to do in those cases?
There's really only two things listed in that description: tell them not to do it and punish them. Both are very authoritarian, and so it's natural for kids to rebel. They're not doing it because they're immature, it's a human response. You could try treating them like an adult instead, talk to them, ask them why they're acting like that, explain why it's bad for them, explain how it upsets you, ask them what they want to do, explain why you can't let them do that but try to compromise if possible, explain how it's your responsibility to raise them as best as possible even if it means denying them things, etc. Being treated with genuine respect makes people listen to you, and makes them want to earn more. If you treat them like a mature adult, then that's what they'll become.
No, but I'm not saying that I'd be able to do this, just that this could probably be a better method of raising kids. Obviously it's very hard raising kids, and this method would take even more effort. It's much easier just to tell them what to do with the only explanation being "because I say so", rather than talking to them and explaining why they need to do something. And it's much easier again just to yell at them or hit them if they misbehave. But it's only because this is the easier method that it's been the more natural and traditional way to raise kids going back thousands of years, not because it's the more effective method. So although I admit I probably wouldn't have the patience for it myself, I do think people should try to be more like this when it comes to raising their kids.
Works for teens and preteens, however, when they are younger 2 - 5 most aren't rational and explaining things go way over their heads. Unless you have a unique talent to be able to dumb things down for them, but that comes out as do it because I said to!
By the time my children were teens they would say; oh shit, here comes another lecture, could we just get grounded or beat? They hated the sit down discussions and later told me they would seldom listen to what I was saying. They would think about school, their friends, or anything and everything they could. Why, because I was a parent and can't understand their world. I was just old, (I was in my 30s), stupid, and didn't believe in having fun.
Two of four have since apologized and opened up about things we went through at that time.
There is no book of instructions that comes with each child and they are all different. I've had 2 & 3 year olds that if you said something negative to them they would break out in tears, yet I had one at 3 or 4 you could almost see the words f___ off I'm going to do as I please, now go away.
That's one reason I'm glad I had them young. If I had them in my 40s, and they were like that, I'd probably give up or be in trouble.
Yeah I guess I was mainly thinking of older children, maybe for very young children it wouldn't work. And you're definitely right, there is no one-size-fits-all way of raising a kid. Still though, I do think this method would certainly be beneficial for any parent to use, even just along with the regular acts of telling them off and grounding them. As evidenced by the OP's question though, lots of parents don't even think of actually asking the child their opinion on the rules, or to explain the reasons for them, they can only invent new ways of punishing the child. And while punishment may be necessary at times, I really don't think it should be the primary solution.
I've found that a parent only has five to ten years to really impact the personality of a child. After that friends, peers, teachers, and people in position of authority can have a major impact. Few parents really try to warp their child, some do unintentionally, however, few try to talk their children in to taking or experimenting with drugs, breaking things, or hurting other people.
It's these outside influences that get into the child's mind and cause conflict at home.
Talking to them is always encouraged and a better solution. But, understand parents are charged with their safety and raising them in most countries until they're 18 or so. Sometimes, for me it came down to; I understand you want to do that but that's not happening. When you grow up, turn 18, you can move out and do as you please but I'm charged with your safety and well-being until then.
I know that sounds harsh but if you instilled your values and did a good and caring job in those first 10 years it probably won't get to that point or they will understand and it doesn't come out as harsh.
Yes, in my case you run about a 50/50 chance when they turn 18 they'll move out. But that's fine with me, I don't want my 25 or 30 year old floundering and still living in the basement (I don't have a basement).
Our daughter is now in her early teens, and the last time we had any issues with her behaviour was when she was three or so. She was a right pain in the ass when she was very small, but once she began to get a handle on verbal communication, life with her got a whole lot easier and more enjoyable.
It's possible we're just extremely lucky that she happens to have been born a reasonable kid who's willing to listen to her parents, but I suspect it's more about how we've always dealt with her. From the time she was very young, the only time we ever said "No!" to her was when she was in imminent danger of doing something dangerous. In every other situation, it was always, "Please don't do that because...", "We can't do that now, because...", "If you do that, then...", "We can't get that, because..." and so on. In other words, we always talked to her like she was a human being capable of understanding things rather than a stupid animal we'd decided to train by use of negative reinforcement.
Also, we don't have any arbitrary, inflexible rules that are based on how we were raised, worries about what relatives or neighbours will think, what parenting "experts" say parents must do or the ancient, absurd rules of some stupid fucking religion. Because we've always made a point of explaining our rules to her, that means there always needs to be a reasonably rational reason behind them. Which, I must say, has caused us to reassess our rules on a few occasions.
Although it's not like we've had deep and meaningful discussions about profound topics from the time she was small, we've always made an effort to actually listen to what she has to say about things. (And, my God, it did take some effort to focus and take seriously her going on and on about Minecraft, Roblox and juvenile interpersonal dramas.) Now she's in her teens, those conversations have become a lot more interesting. There's really nothing we can't talk about and, when she says stuff that strikes us as naïve because of her very limited experience of the world, we don't dismiss or mock her views, but simply give her our perspective on things. As a matter of fact, prompted by Billy Eilish's recent public comments on how viewing porn at a young age affected her, I decided it was time to have an honest discussion with her about boys, sex (beyond the biological basics, which she's known for a long time now), relationships and porn. I expected there to be a lot of cringing and groans of, "TMI!", but we actually had a sensible, grownup talk about my perspectives on all that stuff and the few conclusions she's so far reached.
As for physically assaulting her - which, despite all the common euphemisms, is what corporal punishment really is - we never did that when she was small, and we sure as hell aren't going to start doing it now.
I suppose some might think that I'm a delusional dad who simply can't see what a ghastly horror my darling little girl is, but I'm sure that's not the case. She's a very bright, creative, articulate, considerate kid who gets along very well with people, especially adults. The only thing that does bother her mother and me somewhat is that she's not particularly comfortable in the company of other kids around her age; she's great with small kids and anyone who's past their teens, but kids her age befuddle and annoy her. But then lots of kids are selfish, inconsiderate, irrational little monsters, so why the hell should she want to spend time with them? And, in any case, it's not like she has to learn how to deal with the little bastards because she'll be living in their company for the rest of her life.
I appreciate your comment. The stories Ive heard about children being messed up regardless of what their parents did have made me afraid of having kids. Ive always wanted to be a parent but the idea of messing up big time and having my child end up a little monster is making me shy away from it. I’m glad that it worked out for you.
The fundamental, perennial question about kids is how much of how they are is due to their inherent nature (genetics), and how much is due to how they're being raised (nurture). I seriously doubt if that will ever be definitively resolved, largely because it's so difficult to disentangle the two influences.
If a particular kid is a violent little jerk who has no consideration for the needs of others, was he born wired up that way and the evidence of those "bad genes" is obvious because one or both of his parents is also an asshat? Or is he a dickhead because he was raised by one or a pair of stupid, emotionally stunted asshats who believe that children aren't _really_ people, and beating the shit out of a kid is the best way to get him to comply with their petty, pointless rules?
You're right: there's no shortage of stories about kids who _supposedly_ grew up in loving, stable families and went on to do ghastly things. The first point about that is that nobody outside a family ever _really_ knows what goes on in that family; there's also no shortage of stories of apparently upstanding parents who are actually abusive psychopaths in the privacy of the home. But even if nothing that horrible has gone on, of course every parent wants to believe that they did everything just right, and nobody could have done a better job of raising the kid. But the fact is that we're all fucked up to some degree in one way or another, kids never come with an owner's manual and they're all different in large and small ways, there are loads of external demands and pressures on parents these days which reduce the energy and attention they can give to their kids, and we're all prone to tell ourselves comforting lies about how we've dealt with things. So even if parents are convinced they did a good job, that doesn't mean they did.
Still, it is clear that some problems are definitely genetic. When it comes down to it, every child is the result of a roll of the genetic dice, and there very clearly are things that can go awry in the brains of some kids before or after they're born. It's not irrational to be concerned about that, but there really isn't much you can do about it.
The decision to become a parent shouldn't be taken lightly. It shouldn't be something done because others pressure you to do it, because it's the "normal" thing to do or because you feel some vague, biological urge to produce a mini-me. Becoming a parent is an enormous leap of faith in all sorts of ways. It's literally a life-long commitment. It will affect you in ways that no non-parent ever truly understands. You say you're concerned about your kid turning out to be a monster, but I strongly suspect that if you were ever to have a child, that would actually be way down on your list of fears. Once the realisation sinks in that you're responsible for the care of a helpless human being, there are loads of other, much more ghastly possibilities that prey on the minds of responsible parents.
Having a kid can be a huge drain on your energy, emotional reserves and finances, it profoundly reduces your free time, limits what you can do in that time and almost invariably forces changes in your prior relationships with other adults.
In short, there are loads of reasons not to become a parent, and really not all that many logical reasons to have a kid.
I dont want to be the one preaching about things like I'm a know it all but I think if you have kids you should make sure obviously its with a good man that will stay with you. I can send you some statistics on kids who grow up without a father in their household. They're much more likely to go to prison and have alot of issues. The father is really important to their development. You cant do it all.
Normally there is something they care about enough to get a response. You just have to find it.
More than that is you must set the example you want out of your children. I can tell you, I've seen many of parents say they can't understand why their children act or do certain things, but then I witness the same action out of the parent when they get upset or have a problem. They cuss because you do, they hit things because you do, they throw things because you do. Correct yourself first.
I got tired of yelling and whooping my eldest. It’s too much. We started making him to wallsits and push-ups.
I never take away being able to play outside with friends. But I do take away screens.
I guess your typical red-blooded, all-Ameruican's response to the dilemma of someone still refusing to do what you demand after you've assaulted them is pretty damn obvious: you shoot 'em.
Im not trying to be annoying but I really do think spanking will do "something" its a good tool in a parents arsenal. Theres so many factors to this. It depends on whether theres a father in the house, whether it's a boy or girl, what their age is. There's no one fix all solution. Its much harder if it's just a mother raising the kids especially after the age of 13 or 14 especially with boys once they're physically too much for the mother to control physically. But a father is often still able to control them and put fear into them and make them obey the rules. I think getting spanked is actually good for their development because you learn to deal with not getting your way no matter how you feel about something. I often see these karens on youtube and I can tell you they wouldnt behave like that if they were brought up in the household I grew up in. It trains your lizard brain to know tantrums only cause you more pain and they dont even work.
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I don't care how unruly the kid is, if you lock them in a dark closet for a few hours they're guaranteed to behave. Put rubber strips around the perimeter of the door and threshold so no light or sound gets in.
My parents used to lock me outside at night to sleep when I would misbehave or lock me in a dark room with no windows for hours during the day. It didn’t help. All I learned was that if I do something wrong, no matter how small it is, I deserve to be treated like an animal. The frustration I got from that shit actually made me start misbehaving even more. So no, it doesn’t help your behavior.
I recently saw an adult get his balls nailed to a tree. Perhaps try that
It depends on just how far you want to go. I don't mean digging a hole in the back yard to bury the corpse either.
You need to consult a psychologist. There's something behind his incorrigible behavior. It may even be genetic.