I'm still pro gun after those two shootings

29 people are dead due to two mass shootings over the last 24 hours... so why should we remove guns from the population just because of that? Do people not know that the 2nd amendment is the fail safe against a goverment take over?

I get it people dont want to see others die, especially in these fucked up scenarios but can we all agree humans can be fucked up sometimes? 29 people isnt that many that's like 6 packed minivans getting into a crash. If someone really wanted to mulch people they would take thier cars to do so. if we outlaw all guns or restrict them (criminals would still have guns so no real change there) what would rural areas do if someone was breaking into their house and it takes a half hour for the police to get there?

All I'm saying is yes it sucks but this shit wont stop with or without gun restrictions so why remove the peoples capacity to go against a tyrant in the future?

Voting Results
57% Normal
Based on 56 votes (32 yes)
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Comments ( 138 )
  • chuy

    Is not the gun is the people behinde the gun who are bad.

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    • Doesnormalmatter

      Hey nice I was expecting you to have a more liberal view.

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      • chuy

        Why?, If I'm niether liberal nor conserbative.

        I belive the government should have more regulations on who can and can not aquire a gun.

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        • LloydAsher

          You tend to answer on the liberal side of things.

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          • chuy

            Just cause I don't agree 99.99% on what ever trump is/wants to do don't mean I'm a liberal.

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            • Doesnormalmatter

              Not automatically, but when that is the only real political opinion of yours I have heard, thats going to be my first assumption.

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      • LloydAsher

        Yeah I was expecting something in line of "we should ban all guns" kind of response. Well chuy I'm humbly surprised at that answer.

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        • Doesnormalmatter

          *including nerf guns.

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          • Korpral_varangian

            Only ban nerd guns those are the real problem

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  • RoseIsabella

    I think this os a troll who is taking advantage of the situation to try to trigger people.

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    • Not troll but wondering who's hearts changed by the shootings. I do not vote based off of my heart I vote on logic.

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      • NoLifer

        I think you are a troll. There was another post that said this same thing about hating that gays can get married. As a gay man.

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        • Yeah that wasn't me I'm libertarian I dont care who you want to marry as long as it ain't a dog or a kid.

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      • Korpral_varangian

        Ahh a logical person nice to meet you yeah the Japanese in ww2 said that America would be impossible to invade due to there being so many guns and some people saying pearl harbour was a bad idea also getting rid of the guns would be impractical and extremists still get guns in my country where guns are banned or result to much more damaging and unsafe bombs

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        • Yeah I have pdfs of easily manufacturable firearms in case shit hits the fan and I need an automatic weapon. It's not illegal to own the schematics just illegal to make them.

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      • RoseIsabella

        Okay, I guess I would say that my views on gun control have not changed. I think that these mass murders who go on shooting sprees are all very mentally ill people who never should have had access to guns in the first place.

        I do, however, support the death penalty, and don't believe that any of these mass murderers should be spared from the death penalty. I personally hope that this guy gets whatever punishment would be the worst for him personally.

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      • the_computer

        If you voted on logic you'd know all the data shows tighter gun laws correspond with fewer gun deaths.

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    • raisinbran

      This doesn't seem like much of a troll post... views aren't extremist enough.

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      • RoseIsabella

        That's actually a good point.

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    • Doesnormalmatter

      Troll no, trying to trigger people, maybe.

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      • Trigger how so? I dont go out of my way to offend people but if they get triggered that's their own salt to deal with.

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        • Doesnormalmatter

          Seems like your trying to rub in your viewpoint a little. And also just the fact that you made a post directly voicing your political view. Its like your asking for disagreement.

          However, I agree with your view. And I also don't think there is anything wrong with seeking a debate on an issue you feel strongly about.

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          • Isnt that the point on discussing an issue? I stated my reason on why I'm still pro gun and I asked if it was normal thought process.

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            • Doesnormalmatter

              Yeah man, you are by no means in the wrong. And I do think its normal.

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    • the_computer

      I doubt it. Believe it not, some people are this dumb!

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  • Toledorwb

    George Washington didn’t defeat the British with his freedoms of special, he shot them in the face with guns. Defend the second !

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    • LloydAsher

      And cannons which he also allowed people to personally own. It's a fucking cannon of course they didnt hunt with it but it was still allowed for defense of persons.

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  • Doesnormalmatter

    I agree entirely with your post. Someone could kill 1000 people with a gun and I would be pro gun. The alternative would always be worse and its the people with the guns not the guns themselves that are to blame.

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  • VMan1010

    I would say assault rifles should be banned since there’s no need for such weapons that can kill many in seconds. But not entirely ban guns in general

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    • NoLifer

      I think we are also ignoring the piont that if someone wants a gun illegally they can still get them. Why not train a few teachers or cops to deal with school shooting situations.

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    • I support that kind of gun control. Many of the shooters who used those types of weapons purchased them legally and with ease.

      The gun I plan to get for self defense isn't going to be anything like an AK-47, and you don't need assault rifles for hunting either.

      I see little reason for automatic weapons to be readily available to the public. Even if all American civis had guns like that, I seriously doubt we'd be able to resist the military with all of their tanks and tech anyway.

      It does more harm than good.

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      • CozmoWank

        Automatic weapons are incredibly difficult to get your hands on in the US. One must obtain an expensive Federal license, and go thru an almost year long process of thorough background checks for the purchase of EACH fully automatic weapon. Not to mention they are difficult to find, and extremely expensive. Priced way out of reach for the casual buyer.

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        • Every time they say it was an ak47 rifle it gets people thinking of the ak47 that ISIS is using on mass. Yes the wasr is a variant of the standard Russian ak47 but its uses a semi automatic system thus it isnt an automatic rifle.

          We shouldn't ban semiautomatic weapons because sometimes you do have to shoot more than once especially if you are defending yourself. Semiautomatic pistols are really poor in accuracy if you are an intense moment such as defending yourself.

          The problem wasnt the gun the shooter was using it was the ammo which is 8m3 rifle round which is a hollow point which does massive damage against un armored targets it also happens that hollow points are self defense ammunition kind of ironic but its needed in the sector because standard FMJ rounds dont do as much damage and in a self defence scenario you need to do as much damage as physically possible.

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          • CozmoWank

            Hollow points are also the go-to choice for hunting.

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            • I perfer to hunt with standard bullets. If you fuck up and gut shot the deer you would ruin all the meat since you eviscerated its organs. At least with standard bullets the damage to the guts are somewhat minimalized.

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      • Korpral_varangian

        Yeah the military has well tank armour nukes planes allies and well yeah oh and hidden bases

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        • They wouldnt be that stupid to use nukes on thier own people. We have enough veterans who know the ins and outs of the machines to know were the weak spots are and I'm pretty sure 60% of the military would desert on the spot not to mention how many sympathetic spies would be in the system.

          If the goverment did use nukes on it's own people the world would then invade that country since a goverment that willing to nuke it's own people will probably throw nukes anywhere it pleases.

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          • Korpral_varangian

            Wasn't saying it was likely just saying they could

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  • Ummitsstillme

    Of course you should be. Freedom isn't free. Only the USA has the right to speak. And that right is defended with guns.

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    • Most western countries have a theoretical freedom of speech but the goverment tends to remove this when it suits them. America is the only country that chooses to not touch the freedom of speech mainly because its populice is armed and looking for a reason.

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    • gaz3912

      Moron.

      I rest my case.

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  • Nikclaire

    All these arguments about assualt rifles, hunting, killing multiple people are classic red herring fallacies when arguing the second amendment.

    Written as a last stand defense against the government got it? Yes I want assault rifles, yes I want to be able to kill many people quickly if the government becomes tyrannical and turns on we the people. 2 fucking right.

    At that point when it comes to invoking second amendment rights, it's no longer about hunting.

    Why is this difficult to understand.

    Additionally, mass shooters who commit terrist acts don't give a fuck about laws.

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    • People dont know how easy it is to manufacture firearms. Some sheet metal and decent tolerances allows you to make most post ww2 automatic weapons such as an uzi or a ak47.

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      • CozmoWank

        Some plastic and a 3d printer.

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        • For one shot. Good for traps not so good for small arm production.

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  • howaminotmyself

    Gun is such a generic term. The word can also mean a man's bicep. But that's besides the point. The problem with gun legislation is that it will never get to the root of the problem if it only comes up after a shooting. The amendment itself says it needs a "well regulated militia" and that means gun regulation. Why is that so hard to understand? So that would mean mentally unstable people should not own assualt rifles, or anyone, but lets start with the mentally unstable. And if you get misdiagnosed, Boo-fucking-hoo. Call a lawyer. This debate lacks logic. As with most.

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    • CozmoWank

      The word Regulate has about 4 meanings. One definition is to maintain in working order.

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    • Define assault rifle please.

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      • howaminotmyself

        It is not my job to define these things. I am not a policy maker. But it stands to reason, if we want safety, we need to create standards. Gun ownership has few standards. We need to ask ourselves why the idea of free and clear ownership is more important than safety. People need to earn power. It should not be easy. Hell, I have to jump through hoops just to work in a classroom full of kids. Gun owners should be subject to some hoops. Those guns wield a lot of power.

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        • You can physically build an 1800 cannon and be legally fine. Now that shit can kill a lot of people.

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  • Nikclaire

    I agree. If someone is intent on committing an act of terror, like these were, guns laws make no difference other than to handicap the innocent.

    Those who use these tragedies as a springboard to promote their political agendas, are disgusting imho.

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    • CozmoWank

      Not the OP but Amen to that.
      July 14, 2016, Nice, France, 86 people killed and 458 others injured with a truck.
      No one started screaming "We must ban trucks."

      France has far stricter gun laws than the US but-
      Paris, France, Nov 2015, 130 people killed & 413 people injured by attackers with machine guns.

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      • Korpral_varangian

        Yep and bombs very common for terrorists also UK bunch of cars ramming people cars weren't banned I mean their used to be barriers up all along the side of the road in London but not banned

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      • Korpral_varangian

        So the root of all the problems is humans what if we ban them lol yeah we just need to be cautious

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      • The only reason why America has overwhelming gun violence (I'll give them that) is because America is more free for personal decision making than a lot of these countries. That allows people to make more choices and some of those choices are dumb or homicidal.

        Americans overwhelmingly dont trust their goverment so we dont want to legislate ourselves into a corner so the 2nd amendment is the ultimate fail safe. Also a lot of these shootings are in gang infested regions which so happen to be in areas where there are tight controls on guns.

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  • geek_god_101

    I think shootings are way over reported. You never hear how guns are to be used for self defense or hunting in the news.

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    • CozmoWank

      They downplay the many times guns are used in self defense. Or how does one quantify how many crimes are not committed because the would-be perpetrator decides against the act from fear of getting shot?

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  • bigbudchonga

    29, proportionally, is meaningless. People more easily fall to emotional than logical reasoning, however.

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    • That's why I'm labeled a sociopath by my more liberal friends. I care about long term effects rather than short term feel good bills.

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      • bigbudchonga

        Don't listen to them, dude. They're just bowing before the wind of today.

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        • Ooh. Nice phrase.

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  • CozmoWank

    "In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

    On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

    500 to Medical errors
    300 to the Flu
    250 to Suicide
    200 to Car Accidents
    40 to Homicide via Handgun

    Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data."
    — Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) August 4, 2019

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  • gaz3912

    Here we go again

    Guns don't kill, yes and humans don't discriminate.

    "I took aim and fired the gun, the man died instantly..."

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    • Seriouslythough

      I agree with you.

      You appear very logical.

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  • momwatcher69

    We are trying to ban semi-automatic, and assault weapons, because they kill a lot of people, real fast.

    These weapons serve NO civilian purpose, and are illegal, for hunting.

    These mass shootings are killing innocent bystanders, who have nothing to do, with the shooter . . . .
    Except for the Dayton, Ohio coward, who also shot ( and killed ) his own sister.

    People like you will never understand gun control, or public safety, until your family member or loved one is murdered, for no particular reason, by a complete stranger.

    AND, by the way, the 2nd Amendment was written in 1791 - 228 years ago, when the only guns around, were farmers' muskets, which shot 1 lead ball, at a time, and took roughly 1 minute to reload, if you were in a hurry.

    2nd Amendment also was written to allow STATE MILITIAS, 2 centuries BEFORE assault weapons, and automatic weapons.

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    • Do you think that the founding fathers didnt intend on gun technology advancing?! During the time volley guns were a thing a weapon that could shoot multiple rounds it was only logical that eventually you would have guns firing multiple times and being able to reload in 2 seconds.

      Assault weapons are just playing into peoples fear it's just a gun. Not an assault weapon yes you can assault someone with a gun but so can a hammer or even car but we dont call them assault hammers. It's just a tool its how one uses it determines the purpose of the gun. You can assault someone with a gun but you can also defend someone with it.

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      • momwatcher69

        Volley guns weren't present, nor available, in the 13 colonies, in 1791 ...when the 2nd Amendment was ratified.... NICE TRY!

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    • CozmoWank

      Where do you get your information?
      Your lack of knowledge on the subject is astounding.

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    • Korpral_varangian

      I agree on assault weapons being banned but I view from the outside as an American strength that people know how to use weapons even if they do it to be a terrorist it means America was and is impossible to invade and rifles and pistols are ok perhaps a ammunition per person or weapon limitation so self defends with them can be done yet a murder spree cannot like a card which keeps track of the ammo purchases

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      • You can make ammo you know. It's not that difficult actually. As soon as you put a restriction a website will go up teaching you how to make whatever has been restricted. Hell I have some pdfs of uzi schematics just for the hell of it.

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  • Boojum

    I wonder if you'd be so blasé about the 29 dead people and find them an acceptable sacrifice on the altar of the holy Second Amendment if they were every relative and friend you loved or cared about.

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    • Doesnormalmatter

      Well if 29 relatives of mine died in a car crashe, I would probably want cars banned to. But we can't inhibit someone elses establsihed right based on our bad luck. And like OP said we would be sitting ducks against criminals and our own goverment without guns. More people would prolly die as a result of not being able to defend themselves than would die because of allowing guns in the first place.

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    • Yes I would. Because the logic of the second amendment is far greater than my and my families petty lifes by comparison.

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      • Boojum

        You got your KAG cap yet?

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        • McBean

          Actually, Booj old boy, this special interest group is a bit different. Their caps have the name of their favorite firearm manufacturer boldly embroidered in bright yellow thread. It's a bit like parliament in the UK, where extreme political views come in a variety of flavors. Except in the U.S., there are associated lifestyle interests, and hobbies as well.

          If you're ever feeling a bit sexually insecure, you could try some target shooting. Holding that black metal penis with a trigger will calm you down right away.

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          • Boojum

            I had to qualify regularly with firearms in the military. It didn't trip my trigger.

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      • momwatcher69

        Interesting you claim to know the "logic" of the 2nd Amenment, but you don't understand the INTENT of the 2nd Amendment.

        https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment

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    • Ummitsstillme

      Boojum you have become so ridiculously Euro in your old age

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  • Does the statistics take in account that people change political affiliation over time? People tend to lean left when they are young (and generally poorer) only to turn more concervitive when older and wanting to keep the fruits of their labor. I'm right libertarian and if I'm reading the same statistic as you are they tend to have an even higher intelligence than democrats. Not to despute the article but having an art bachelors degree vs just being a electrician that went to technical school doesnt desplay a difference in inteligence.

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  • Clunk42

    In my opinion, the only people who shouldn't be allowed to have guns are people with mental issues and past criminals.

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    • That's already in place isnt it? Felons cant have guns and mental illness is in the background check.

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      • Clunk42

        Exactly. So we shouldn't have to change anything.

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  • the_computer

    *Laughs hysterically at anyone believing they stand in chance in Hell of standing up to the US military*

    China and Russia combined aren't believed to be able to overcome the US military, but a bunch of rednecks can? The musket days are over, folks. They have drones.

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  • Boogienights

    Quote currently spreading on facebook-

    I want any young men who buys a gun to be treated like young women who seek an abortion. Think about it: a mandatory 48-hour waiting period, written permission from a parent or a judge, a note from a doctor proving that he understands what he is about to do, time spent watching a video on individual and mass murders, traveling hundreds of miles at his own expense to the nearest gun shop, and walking through protestors holding photos of loved ones killed by guns, protestors who call him a murderer.

    After all, it makes more sense to do this for young men seeking guns than for young women seeking an abortion. No young woman needing reproductive freedom has ever murdered a roomful of strangers.

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  • cupcake_wants

    Religion and politics both do harm!!!

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  • gaz3912

    I laughed myself silly when a hunter got shot dead by his own gun his dog was carrying.

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    • Guy died that isnt funny. Getting shot is if it's by a dog, not dying by it.

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      • gaz3912

        It's hilarious.

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  • Boogienights

    Once its your family who die youll change your mind

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    • Not at all. My entire family is worth considerably less than the entire USA civilian population to go defenseless against a regime.

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      • Boogienights

        You live inside a self imposed prison. Plenty of countries out here in the real world are safe places and gun free. If I had to live somewhere where I felt the need to be armed Id leave. I feel sorry for you.

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  • litelander8

    NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE EPSTIEN CASE.

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    • Ichabuskene

      #pizzagate

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  • momwatcher69

    Why don't police use assault rifles, instead of pistols?
    Because the bullets fly out, so fast, there will be collateral damage....they are also cumbersome, when you need them in a split-second.... DUH

    Also, why do you think they are called ASSAULT rifles? ..... DUH
    They were designed, and manufactured, to cause mass casualties, ON THE BATTLEFIELD ..... not to be used downtown, for innocent civilians

    I'm a veteran, and know the rapid damage an M16, AR15, AK47 can do.
    Seriously, people, if someone is in your house, in the middle of the night, are you gonna "spray" your house, maybe hitting your family, to kill an intruder...... or .... you gonna use a pistol?
    .... which is easy to grab, and operate.

    Why are they also ILLEGAL for hunting? Collateral damage ? YES

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    • CozmoWank

      I call BULLSHIT!
      There is no way you are a veteran and so misinformed about firearms.
      AR 15's are perfectly legal to hunt with. Often used for varmints like fox & coyote. In some locals the .223 is considered UNDERPOWERED and insufficient enough to take down a deer and therefore illegal to use hunting deer. Nothing to do with collateral damage.

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      • momwatcher69

        4th Infantry Division - Ft. Carson, COLO. M.O.S.: 11Bravo
        AR15's are not legal, in MY state, for (legal) hunting, and neither are assault rifles.

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        • CozmoWank

          Aw bullshit. 3rd Special Forces Group - Ft. Bragg, NC, M.O.S: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
          Tell us, what state is that? The state of Bullshit.

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          • momwatcher69

            Yes, your MOS IS WTF.... What, The, Fuck
            Bye, phony

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      • LloydAsher

        Yeah I dont use my millitary training as a crutch in these arguments since it isnt an argument for the effectiveness of the law itself. The 2nd amendment puts us within the US militaries problem list. If they choose to go against the people.

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        • momwatcher69

          CRUTCH ?!
          READ, and TRY to grasp, what I said, dumbass, if you can !!

          I only mentioned that I am a Veteran, because I have personal experience, on the damage these weapons can do.

          And (maybe) answer the questions I asked. Or, just keep spouting your 1-tracked mind....

          The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed to be a lightweight assault rifle and to fire a new high-velocity, lightweight, small-caliber cartridge to allow infantrymen to carry more ammunition. ... The Armalite AR-15 is the parent of a variety of Colt AR-15 & M16 rifle variants.
          AK47's and M-16's are ALSO (A S S A U L T) RIFLES !!
          Do you FINALLY get the word: ASSAULT?

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          • momwatcher69

            https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment

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    • You can agree that a gun is just a gun. I dont belive that there is a justification for having an automatic weapon for self defense purposes on that note I still want one or know how to make one for incase the goverment gets a little too over zealous. Assault weapons normal weapons are the same God damn thing. Semi automatics? Sometimes you need to shoot more than once to kill the attacker. What would be better having a revolver that takes forever to reload without a speed loader or a freaking 1911 that loads in 2 seconds?

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  • CountessDouche

    I would like to read more about your opinion. Please reply with more. Thanks.

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    • Opinion on what else? "Assault weapons" I dont think the AR15 is an assault weapon more than it is a defensive weapon it's just a gun and a gun is a tool. It's a tool that's just good at killing things. A hammer is great at hammering a nail but it's also great at bashing a head in. It's all about who's using it.
      It's more dangerous to ban guns then to allow the possibility of bad eggs to potentially buy a gun.

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      • momwatcher69

        You can't kill 50 people, in 50 seconds, with a hammer.

        For the last time, you "gun-freaks": I DO NOT believe in making ALL guns illegal, JUST "assault rifles" and "bump-stocks".

        Until your loved ones / family members are murdered, by a total stranger, for no particular reason, you will never "get it".

        RAPID-FIRE ASSAULT WEAPONS HAVE NO CIVILIAN or HUNTING PURPOSE !!

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        • Nikclaire

          You won't get it until the government asks you to board a bus to go and take a nice shower.

          The U.S government has rounded up citizens before and will not hesitate to do it again if they feel the need.

          I love the USA but why give up protections when it will make zero difference for criminals.

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      • CountessDouche

        Sorry lol. I should have been more specific, I just find opinions about the gun debate in America to be fascinating because i don't think that there's any easy solution to the gun violence issue. I don't live in America anymore, so I'm out of touch with the general vibe on gun culture given recent mass shootings.

        So, are you happy with the current restrictions on guns, or do you think they should be lessened even more? Do you think there should be any restriction/background checks/certain types of restricted guns? Do you believe civvies w/ guns could successfully fight back against the government?

        I just get interested in reading opinions on the issue, but there's plenty of that on reddit if you don't feel like typing a novel lol.

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        • I have a crank fire attachment for my AR 15 it's a fun weapon to have and a great mod to boot. Civvies with guns would 100% be the reason why the goverment doesnt go rogue. I'm fine with current gun background checks but removing guns wont stop anything since gun running runs too deep in criminal organizations.

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          • CountessDouche

            Interesting. What is a "crank fire attachment?"

            Do you just mod your guns like that for fun at the shooting range or does it serve some additional purpose?

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            • Crank fire uses a crank to rapidly turn a semi automatic into a rapid fire firearm without turning it into an automatic weapon since the crank is used instead of a held down trigger. It's very weird to hold and fire but if you are 50ft a way I can empty my mag in about 2 seconds.

              It's a fun thing to have. Pretty much just party trick at the hunting lodge with friends. Along with the 12 gauge single shotty with magnesium dragon breath shells.

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