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Is it normal that I think our society would benefit as a whole if things went back to the old days where men were men, the bread winner and head of the family, and women were women and stayed home or had small part time jobs and looked after the home and raised the children. Please note I am a woman
I believe old-fashioned values are just as sexist towards men as they are towards women. By making the man be the breadwinner or the one who calls all the shots, I feel he's being treated like a slave. Since when is it wrong to be a Mr. Mom, or for a woman to break the glass ceiling? If you really want equality, then fuck both society and overbearing parents, and let each and every individual determine their own fate.
Well, thanks to modern day freedom of choice, you can choose to do whatever you want, so if it’s what you want to do, then be a stay at home mom.
I think the western worlds approach to feminism is a lot different than where I’m at. Under the USSR a lot of women worked in very high end and well educated careers, being a stay at home mom was hardly an option. Now, under our new freedoms, many women are now able to choose to focus more on motherhood. I’ve heard western women snark at this newer trend for us, that the major decline in the number of women in our STEM programs is “reverse feminism” but it isn’t, they just now have a choice in the matter.
The beauty of modern freedom is the ability to choose, and being privileged enough to live somewhere where you aren’t forced to work your fingers to the bone to survive.
I support your decision to stay at home and dedicate your hours to raising your children, but I don’t like that you’re trying to make this a societal standard.
I never actually said I stay home and dedicate my hours to raising children. I work 30 hours a week but I finish work at 3pm in time to pick my younger children up from school. I do however do all the housework and as they have got older I have given my 2 daughters household chores to do. The older one (13) is responsible for cleaning the family bathroom twice a week, changing her bedding once a week, vacuuming all the bedrooms twice a week, help with cooking dinner 3 nights a week and help clearing up after dinner 2 nights a week. The younger one (8) helps with preparing dinner 2 nights a week, dusting the living room once a week and helps clear up after dinner 3 nights a week. They both know they get these chores because they are girls and will need to learn these skills for adult life. All my children are responsible for keeping their rooms tidy and I check them frequently but my 2 sons aged 9 and 11 don’t have any of the other chores my daughters have. I don’t expect my sons or husband to do housework and I am proud of this. I aim to have dinner on the table shortly after my husband comes in from work and when we have eaten I clear up with the help of one of my daughters.
Don’t like the idea of gendered chores. You know it’s very likely your sons will live alone for a while in their young adult lives between moving out from home and settling down right? How do you expect them to care for themselves?
I think you’re raising incapable sons this way, and I think your daughters will soon resent you.
I believe you should raise your children to be self sustaining, prepare them to be successful on their own and respectful of themselves.
However way they decide to split responsibilities between their spouse and children is up to them at a later time.
Yes I realise not everyone agrees with the way I do things but the boys do have their jobs to do as well. They put the bins out on dustman day and put them back that night, they wash both cars once a week and clean the house windows once a month, they are responsible for cutting the grass in summer and clearing the weeds. They are also taught to respect all females, they will offer their seat to a lady if she doesn’t have one and that includes their sisters, they will take care of any lifting and moving heavy objects and carry shopping in from the car. 2 years ago I caught the boys disrespecting their sisters they were making fun of them doing their chores. Their punishment they were grounded for the entire summer holiday (6 weeks) and were made to wear girls clothes right down to their underwear and do all their sisters chores plus their own jobs for the whole summer. The girls got 6 weeks off.
That’s the creepiest thing I’ve ever heard. Making your children cross dress as a punishment. You just taught them that their punishment was that they had to be like their sisters.
With that logic you’re literally admitting that being your daughter is equal to punishment.
How depressing.
I disagree my sons learnt a hard lesson but they now know how to treat a lady. They stand up and open doors for me and their sisters and any female that comes to the house, they know they are also expected to do this when they are out in public and know the consequences if I find out that they don’t. They will always stand aside for us and offer their seat. I don’t care if one of them has to stand or sit on the floor so their younger sister has a chair to sit on. They also have their rooms checked by their sisters sometimes and if either of the girls considers it has not been kept tidy to her standards they will obey her wishes and tidy it properly. During social and family times together the boys are expected to treat the girls as if they are on a pedestal. And I’m delighted to say they do. We are a simple white middle class English family, nothing special, I raise my children this way as it is how me and my 2 brothers were raised. Some may think it is wrong but my girls will be well prepared to raise their own families and my boys are courteous young gentlemen a rare quality in young men these days
No I think that's fucking stupid! Nowadays people are more free to choose what they want.
I've read your responses to some of the folks nice enough to give you suggestions. You sound mental. I mean seriously psycho. The shit you have said you put your children through is cringe worthy.
And yet they are healthy, happy and respectful. My eldest son helped an elderly neighbour 2 doors down a few weeks ago, she had fallen over trying to get her lawnmower out of the garden shed. He just happened to look out of his bedroom window and saw her fall. He ran out of our house and went to her rescue, she was a little shaken but uninjured, he helped her up and then cut her grass for her. Then he helped her with a few other jobs in her garden. When he left a couple of hours later she insisted on giving him £10 for his kindness despite his protests. He finally took the money and promptly spent most of it on some flowers for me and sweets for his sisters as a thank you for what we do for him. These are the values I am talking about
You are free to live as you want. Don't try to force your own morals onto everyone else.
Sounds like you like being subservient. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect everyone to have your level of obedience and enjoy being servitude as much as you do.
Personally, I like when my boyfriend (soon to be husband) are on the same level. We both clean together, share cooking responsibilities, work fulltime, etc. This sort of dynamic may not be ideal for everyone, but it depends on what you're comfortable with, and this is comfortable for me.
Like Jim Crow, homosexuality being considered a mental disorder, any idea other than Christianity being minority, and women having little to no rights?
I can see why it'd be beneficial to have one parent working and the other looking after the kids, but there's no reason why it couldn't be the woman working and the man staying at home.
Yes I guess if the man was a little effeminate that could work. But generally men don’t have those little extra touches that a woman has that turns a house into a home. I know if my husband were to be the homemaker the place would be bland and a little sterile. I remember his Batchelor pad when I first met him, things well organised but all very ‘practical’ no added touches
If women wore chastity belts it would cut down on the numbers of rapes, false rape accusations, as well as unwanted pregnancies and abortions.
I do believe in the death penalty for some. On the news I seen that an ice addict high on meth drove on the wrong side of the road, crashing into a car and killing a young man while his girlfriend watched him take his last breath. While out on bail this drug addict repeatedly drove with out a license high on drug (some people never learn) He will be out in 4 years to do this again. See, I think he is to risky, execute the guy, problem solved!
I certainly feel that way and that's why my wife doesn't work and takes care of our kid. It's America though so if others don't want to do that they shouldn't have to. But sometimes I get the feeling a lot of people would like to do that but they can not afford it. I do think America would be a better place in some ways though if it were like this. The divorce rate would be lower, less crime, less entitled crybabies.
Your wife IS working, it's just that she's not paid for it. To quote one of my favourite slogans from the 1970's:
EVERY MOTHER IS A WORKING MOTHER!
No doubt she's working and being a mother is much harder than going to work everyday like me. I was trying to say that she's not working as in employment work.
This is my whole point and the reason I believe in the old fashion values. The family was a team and we all worked in one way or another paid or otherwise. I am a housewife and mother but I also work in paid employment 30 hours a week. My husband works about 45 hours most weeks. Overall with housework and paid work I’m sure I do far more hours than him but I accept that as part of being a woman. He has other pressures like being head of the family, looking after the finances dealing with household maintenance and the cars etc. He also has a better paid job than I do and has a lot more stress from it.
Well if you want to accept being exploited that's up to you, but women like you are a dying breed
But I’m not exploited. I don’t see things that way. I’m proud of my children and the way I raise them. I’m also proud of my husband and his career, but I wouldn’t want to be him or live in his world. He is the head of our family and we are not perfect. We argue and fall out like any other family. We make up and apologise and move on. Sometimes we are tired and moody and sometimes we struggle to make things right and he steps in and shows his authority. In the end we all play our role and stick together because we are a loving family. If we all lived our segregated lives and thought only of ourselves we would not be the family we are and yet so many ‘modern families’ seem to live like that and half the time no one knows what anyone else is doing or what is going on in their lives. I wouldn’t want our family to be that way.
I agree, too bad you have to be employed. Idk if you pay for babysitting but maybe if you quit the losses wouldn't be that bad after you get rid of daycare expenses. You could even babysit another kid to make up the money you lose.
I think women should have the choice, but society was certainly more functional back then. Society, nowadays, has degraded to a point where we've had decades of dysgenics and can't even keep a stable birth rate.
Something definitely needs to change. Still give people the choice for a non-traditonal lifestyle, but I think this push to make women men and men women isn't working. The sexes have a bias towards certain jobs and abilities inherently, and pushing them the other way doesn't help.
Society wasn't "more functional" for women "back then". Domestic violence was ignored, contraceptives were unreliable so women had far more children than they wanted and women were financially dependant upon men and couldn't enter most well paid professions.
Who is trying to make men into women and women into men? I'd love to see some scientific evidence that the sexes have inherent abilities for different jobs: that is total rubbish. Where have you been for the last 50 years?
I don’t condone violence, domestic or otherwise, but if you think this modern world of equality we now live in means the end of domestic violence you are clearly living on a different planet to the rest of us. That said I do believe in moderate corporal punishment provided it is justified and not used as a cover for abuse.
"Who is trying to make men into women and women into men?"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375381/Fire-service-strength-fitness-tests-relaxed-allow-women-firefighters.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6585341/Woman-failed-infant-test-given-pass-Army-furious-male-soldiers-staged-rebellion.html
Those are two examples off the top of my head where you have male-dominated jobs that are having the standards lowered to allow females in. I'm very surprised you don't know that there are biological differences between men and women and that it obviously translates to different capabilities to do certain work. I'm also sure there are many more examples you could find, if you're truly being objective and want to look for yourself. I know there are also scholarships for women who go into certain male-dominated careers as well, purely because they're women.
And, yes, it was far more functional. Western society is failing to even complete the most basic evolutionary functions such as reproduction. Also, I just completely disagree that "Society wasn't "more functional" for women "back then", as does half a century of statistical evidence.
https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/Intellectual_Life/Stevenson_ParadoxDecliningFemaleHappiness_Dec08.pdf
It's well known that women's happiness has been falling for about 50 years. Where have I been for the last 50 years? Not pushing for movements that have consistently made women's lives more miserable. It's rather ironic, as that study, "The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness" says in the title, but these movements that are supposedly for "equality", by modern and recent feminists, have made women consistently unhappier for decades.
It only seems to be the nutty feminists who refuse to look at the evidence. It's out there and plain to see. I hope you genuinely are interested in it, and not one of them, because it's in abundance and is objectively damning of what the feminists have been and continue to push for, not only in regards to the most basic functions to keep a society living from generation to generation, but it's crushed the happiness for the group of people they're supposedly fighting for as well; Feminism has become the monster it was created to fight, and it has been for a long time.
Which ones do you mean? Slavery, women being paid much less than men for the same work, people dying of preventative diseases, outside pan toilets, homes with no running water .... I could go on.
One old fashionED value I'd like brought back would be more people writing in a more literate fashion and less people making up words.
I am not talking about getting rid of inside toilets or pretending advancements in medical science never happened. Technology and new inventions have always been part of life no matter what century or decade we live in. What I am talking about is a return to traditional values where families functioned as a team, a man accepted his responsibilities, a woman knew her place and children respected their elders.
Sure, economically that would be fine if the man made enough. But the fucking problem with people is that they always feel the need to, if something becomes popular, force others to do the same.
That leads to people being trapped in shitty lives and marriages, especially women, who are dependent in the situation. I hope you're not small-minded enough to believe that everyone could just live perfectly in your little fantasy, or that the past was ever completely ideal.
Things are fine as they are. As much as trad-obsessed people would like to say otherwise, housewives still exist. People live that way if they choose. We don't need to be trying to force everyone to live a narrow style of life.
That setup was NOT fine for women stuck in the home and financially dependant on the male. I remember it and lived through the changes women made to have more fulfilling lives.
Some housewives had to have had decent lives though, and a lot of the ones nowadays do, because they have a choice to be in that position. That's not saying you're entirely wrong, however.
If everyone had OP's mindset, women would be barred from jobs and unable to support themselves well enough to live safely away from abusive and/or controlling situations. Screwed for life, basically. I hate that; people should be allowed the opportunity to rise as high as their own two hands will pull them.
Hansberger, a user who makes long, bizarre posts without spacing, usually about ideas and ways of life-
https://www.isitnormal.com/post/is-it-normal-to-know-your-clues--288052#comment-2900071
https://www.isitnormal.com/post/is-it-normal-to-pursue-bliss--274738#comment-2733707
I don't think you're reminiscent of him, aside from the walls of text, because what you're saying is pretty standard.
There is no respect anymore, kids all just running around in gangs wanting to knife or shoot people. Men unable to get up the career ladder and get good jobs to provide for their family, because there are a dozen women in front of them claiming if the top jobs go to men it’s sex discrimination. Kids raised on junk food from the freezer because there’s nobody cooking a healthy nourishing meal. Social media ruining kids lives because the parents don’t have time to understand what their children are getting into. Millions raised in one parent families because the parents think it’s fine just to throw in the towel at the slightest sign of disagreement.
"kids all just running around in gangs wanting to knife or shoot people," "Men unable to get up the career ladder and get good jobs to provide for their family, because there are a dozen women in front of them claiming if the top jobs."
Do you even research (besides sensational news and articles that echo your beliefs) or look into the details of life outside your area?
Hell no all trad men are useless woman beating cucks. You're probably ugly and mad women don't have to settle for you.
Well, the thing about time is that you can only go forward. I like the fact that (some) people can either live like that or not live like that, these days. I say some, because the economy has pretty much adjusted to a setup where both partners work, so it's pretty hard to keep a family and a household running with just one breadwinner unless they're in quite a well-paid job.
All that being said, there are problems in society today that are caused largely by parental neglect, burnout, abuse and/or and sheer inability to parent effectively, possibly because of work-related stress, or maybe because many people don't know how any more, because they no longer view parenting as a vocation to be prepared for.
I think there's a logic to women working and men breadwinning that suits our developmental needs well. I don't think that the inflexible norms about 'the role of women' which we've seen in the past, are helpful, however.
Power to ye women if you want a nuclear family. More gen Zs want to have that kind of dynamic and I cant blame them. Hell I'm sterile and I want that kind of family even if my kids are adopted. Just seems pleasing to do so.
Yeah, bring back the corsets and pointlessly large dresses. That makes sense.
I don’t wear corsets but I do only wear skirts or dresses. I don’t believe women should wear trousers so I don’t own any trousers, jeans or leggings and neither do my daughters I allow them to wear skirts and dresses any style or length they wish but not trousers. I do however allow tights in cold weather but personally I only wear stockings with suspenders
If you mean trousers I have nothing against them on males. I just don’t understand why women want to wear them, they are unfeminine and unflattering. It is also healthy for a woman to have air flowing around down below and that can’t happen in trousers. I was brought up to believe that and have to the best of my memory only ever worn a pair once, those were borrowed from a friend after an unfortunate spillage on my skirt. I actually found them to be incredibly uncomfortable.
It'd be one thing if it were just you, but restricting what your kids can wear for arbitrary, petty reasons is stupid imo.
I don't have to admit that as I don't agree with you. Corsets are pointless and constricting, not sexy.