Is it normal publishing is a dream of rich people?

I been trying to publish my book. I figured that publishers being proffesionals who are looking for a product to sell would pay the author. However, this seems to not be the case at all. It seems most publishers will publish but they require you pay them 600-2000$ up front since they will not put in the cost of publishing a book. Which I find odd since even looking for a lawyer is easier than this. Some lawyers will say "I will take your case if I can win, and if you win I take half the profit, I get nothing upfront unless I win". My mother somehow found a deal with a publisher who said they were going to publish her for free and just take a portion of any proceeds but that seems near impossible to find.

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Based on 3 votes (2 yes)
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Comments ( 25 )
  • Boojum

    As others have said, what you've encountered are vanity publishers. They've been around in different forms ever since the invention of the printing press.

    If all you want is to see your book in a form that looks like the classic image of a book so you can give them away or sell them yourself, then going the vanity publishing route is fine. But if you want to actually make some money from your efforts, then it's not the way to go.

    Real publishers don't just deal with producing neatly bound stacks of paper between two covers; that's the job of book printers (which, in reality, is all vanity publishers are). The main work of publishers is using their experience and contacts to get a particular product noticed in a horrendously competitive market. Genuine publishers don't ask for money up-front because their impression of a certain book is that, with some investment in things like editing, cover design, getting positive reviews from reviewers, and schmoozing with booksellers, they can create enough of a buzz about that particular book to at least recoup the expense of all their work.

    Writing is art, but publishing is business, and it sounds like your knowledge of publishing is sorely lacking. It was always extremely difficult for new writers to break-through in the traditional model of publishing. However, these days literally anyone can write a book and have it published and up for sale on Amazon's Kindle platform and other e-book sites. So you could probably could have your book up for sale on Amazon by this time tomorrow if you put your mind to it.

    But of course that doesn't mean you're going to be able to buy a mansion with the income from that. You might not even make enough to buy a can of Coke.

    Being successful on e-book publishing sites requires the author to learn some of the skills of traditional publishers such as cover design, as well as how to promote books in the current market. And perhaps I'm being grossly unfair to you since your OP was probably tapped out on a phone with the typical casual use of punctuation, but I'll just mention in passing that an awful lot of the self-published e-books I've encountered were desperately in need of a decent editor or at the very least a competent proof-reader.

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    • Of course my knowledge of publishing is lacking. That is why I asked the question. Making things doesn't do anything if you do not have somewhere to put them. I can make the next yugioh but if I can not sell it to a game company, its not really anything. Its just an idea. Also I did consider doing it directly to kindle but I was hoping to have it professionally edited. I mean I likely can do it myself if I put in a little effort. I also am terrible at marketing. I just sort of was hoping for a outside perspective. If I think something is right, but its wrong I would never know if I am correcting myself.

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      • Boojum

        I haven't looked into the details of this, but I recall authors calling out their "Beta Readers" in the acknowledgement section of their self-published books. These are people who have read the book from the perspective of an average reader (whatever that is) and give feedback to the author. I have no idea how you might find beta readers, but it might be something worth looking into.

        As far as the flow of what you've written, the grammar and so on, it is very difficult to critically read something you've written yourself. We all have a tendency to skim over glaring mistakes like repeated words when we're re-reading for the fifteenth time something we've written ourselves. Something you might consider is using text to speech software to listen to what you've written. Once you get used to the computer voice, it's surprising how that can highlight things like awkward phrasing, stilted dialogue and so on.

        Grammarly is reasonably good at picking up grammar and punctuation errors, but its suggestions need to be taken with a grain of salt.

        I completely understand what you say about marketing. The fact that there are loads of books on Amazon about this aspect of self-publishing suggests that many writers find this challenging. I guess there's something about the way that the minds of creative writers work that means it's difficult for them to shift to this way of thinking. I can't recommend any books or websites for advice on this, but I'm sure they're out there.

        As for what you say about the things you create not really being anything unless someone is willing to buy it, I have to question this attitude. There is such a thing as creating art for its own sake and your personal satisfaction. Having your creative efforts validated by others expressing their appreciation can give you the warm fuzzies of pride. But on the other hand, constantly chasing the approval of others is a mug's game. If your aim is to make a living from your creative efforts, then obviously other people need to express their appreciation of your work by handing over some money, but when artists blither on about their artistic vision and integrity, it's not total BS.

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        • dude_Jones

          If I may play editor sir, the last paragraph of your well articulated comment addresses the crux of this post head-on. Spouses of rich people dabble in visual as well as verbal art to escape the overbearing drudgery their investment banking spouses bring home from the office.

          I would argue that artistic vision and integrity is not so much an enlightening thing worth paying for, but is more of a wonderful escape for those who are rich enough to pursue it for nothing.

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          • Are you saying rich pursue art more as a hobby vs a means to riches? While the poor starve trying to turn hobbies into money?

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            • dude_Jones

              Yes. But truth be told, rich people did not become rich pursuing their own hobbies. They are far more likely to have sold goods to poor people that improve time and productivity so these poor people can have hobbies in the first place.

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        • If comprehension of the passage is difficult please do give input into how it can be altered. Also I never said the worth of Art is based on how much you can sell it for. I said something apposing this idea in another response. However, my goal was to make money off my art. I generally do not charge for anything.

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  • bigbudchonger

    You're looking at the wrong places. Very very few people get published, and yes they get paid for it. What you've stumbled into are vanity publishers who make a living charging people to publish their books.

    Tldr: do not pay them money vanity publishing is essentially a scam.

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    • So how do I find REAL publishers? Since when you google publishing, vanity publishers is the only thing that actually comes up. Also I know I have an audience and people will buy my novel. As I already published it for free on a writing website and have several hits. Was going to pull it and try to officially publish it but I can not find a publisher who is not going to charge an arm and a leg.

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      • bigbudchonger

        Idk tbh dude. I'm looking to get published myself in about 6 months after I've gone through everything, I can get back to you then if you're still waiting? Basically anywhere that charges you though is a scam. Publishers pay you, even if it's something tiny like 1k up front. Don't be tempted to vanity publish because they won't market your book properly.

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        • donteatstuffoffthesidewalk

          an excerpt from is it normal the novel:

          "Although he had made the rules clear there was something strangely exciting about watching people eat stuff of the sidewalk. Forbidden fruit is always the sweetest fruit. Roseisabella sat in a dark corner looking on while smoking a cigarette and petting the cat on her lap."

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          • dude_Jones

            "A strange but compelling trance descended upon the group. 'Am I hypnotized by my vicarious interests, or am I in awe of my own strangeness?' I asked. 'We'll never know' replied Green_boogers." .....

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        • Okay but who are the REAL publishers? If you are publishing that means you know one.

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          • bigbudchonger

            No I mean I want to get published too. Idk dude who the real ones are. I just know how to spot fakes. You might want to self publish dude. It's insanely hard to get properly published.

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            • I mean you clearly not going to get anywhere if you say you can spot the fakes but have no idea where to find the real ones. Also self publishing is just as expensive as I listed. As well as that not sure if I need an editor

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  • olderdude-xx

    If you actually have something worth reading that appeals to an audience, then you can find a publisher who will pay you for it. However, for your 1st book you are not likely to be paid much. If its a good success you can get paid more for your next book.

    Most authors who have gotten published with a paid arrangement discuss being turned down by 10-20 publishing companies before finding one that accepted their Draft. I've heard of cases where its been over 30 publisher rejections.

    Even the best seller in the last 15 years (millions of copies, and translated to other languages, now used as a textbook in High School and College: was on the NY times best seller list for like 5 years straight) was rejected I believe by something like 4 publishing companies before Rebbecca Skloot found one who would publish it ("The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks").

    To find these publishers a 1st stab is to look in the book store for who publishes the books in the area you are writing about, or in related fields (Tom Clancy was rejected many times for "The Hunt For Red October" and finally was accepted by a small publisher of military history and technology: it was their 1st fictional book ever - and it and the following books have sold mega millions of books although I believe a larger publisher purchased the rights to the series - including the 1st book).

    However, I'll be honest with you on your current work. You have two major strikes against you in regards to publishers who pay you. 1) you have already published in on the web. Thus, they cannot own and control the copyright. Many of the publishers do work with their authors to allow article and sections to be published on the web... after they have signed the deal with you and control the copyright.

    2) you mention that your book has had a few hits on the internet. Why is it not 10,000 - 100,000+ hits. I'm not sure you have a book that is of much interest to other people.

    I've got a bestseller book from last year (1st edition) where the author wrote on Medium for years to hone his writing skills, and then picked up Magazine contracts for articles. His articles on Medium often had hundreds of thousands of hits. That evidence showed the publisher of his 1st book that people were interested in his general topic area and liked his writing.

    There are writer development groups in every city in America. They help you develop your ability to write, and can help you determine which publishes to submit to once your ready for that.

    The other option is vanity publishing - where you pay someone to publish the book and then you try to market it.

    I only know of 1 vanity published book to break into the profit side of the business in a big way, although I have heard that a few others did become profitable (and I have books from several vanity published authors that have never become - and will never be - profitable. "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" was originally vanity published by Robert Kiyosaki. It became a NY Times Best Seller and another publishing company picked it up and paid its author well. There are now a whole series of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" books on financial and business intelligence.

    I wish you well in your desire to be paid for your written work. I do suggest that you find a local writers group to assist you in developing your knowledge and skills.

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    • I do not think I listed how many hits it has so you are making assumptions on how popular it is. I have been writing for years I just never published anything through a publisher. Part of the reason is I was not sure where to go to get it published and trying to do it yourself costs a lot of money and I never really had a ton of money. I also have a comics, board games and card games I created but I not sure how to get them published. Also I can pull it from the website at anytime, why does that change anything? So you are saying to look for leads at the local bookstores?

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      • olderdude-xx

        I see that you apparently removed or edited the comment where you had said that you had published it on the internet and had a few hits. If you had 10,000 + hits you would have listed those numbers instead of using the word "few".

        Do you think people would not notice?

        Unless its a very local history book; all the books sitting on the shelves of large bookstores were published by companies who paid the authors. Publishers who pay their authors meet my definition of real publishers..

        On the other hand; perhaps you don't really know the meanings of the words "few" and "real." My apologizes for my comments if that is the case.

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        • No, I would not have listed the exact number of hits since I did not think bragging was necessary. Purpose was to get useful information so I could finally get it published. You seem to misunderstand the purpose of this site. This is not an advertising website. If you want to promote your product friend, I would try a better website. This is a forum for people to ask questions.

          Generally speaking I have never charged for my stuff even my art as I enjoy others viewing my stuff. However, I figured that a lot of people do make good money selling things and selling art so I was going to try to create an income it. I did not think a person bragging is what counted them as VALID. So I am sorry for not showboating.

          Also yes, when I said "real" publishers I mean people who pay the author vs the other way around. So I was looking for someone who would not charge me but generally when I try to google it the first thing is what everyone seems to refer to as "Vanity publishers". So I just have to wonder why there is so little publicity for none vanity ones.

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          • olderdude-xx

            I'm fully aware of the purpose of this site.

            The real publishers don't need to advertise - at all. They get between 30 - 50 draft submissions for every book that decide to publish.

            Again, the best way to find out who they are is to look at who publishes books in a book store in your genre.

            Writing support groups likely have lists as well.

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  • Rocketrain

    Agree.
    I'm a writer too I have come across with so many issues like that.
    Majority of writers are passionate writers. But 100% publishers are for business.
    When I was troubling to do my first book, majority of the people did ask for a security money for marketing saying they can't take a risk of failing and loose money. And I need to cover their marketing fees which not be repay even if your book is success.
    Also publishers go for translation books mostly because it's marketing free and very law amount of payment to the translator.

    Being a writer is phenomenal I think. But when it comes to publishing, that art is almost buried now.

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  • People still read books and books store still exist. Why would I not publish?

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