Is aborting a child some sort of murder
You know, a baby that isnt born yet, and abort it,
| I think so | 5 | |
| You should only do it if its realy nesecary | 32 | |
| No (Add a comment) | 4 | |
| No | 31 | |
| Yes (Add a comment) | 5 | |
| Yes | 17 | |
| No because it isnt born yes | 15 |
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Comments ( 38
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taciturn
I really wish this poll was a little more eloquent, but I guess a meaningful discussion could take place either way.
To discuss this, we really need to agree upon what constitutes a "human". To me, one is only really a person once one is self-aware. Until that point, we're just talking about a potential human, and the idea of 'potential human rights' is as nonsensical as seeking rights for sperm and ovum.
This, of course, has troubling philosophical implications in itself. The Mirror Test (a self-awareness test for animals/children measuring reactions to seeing a reflection in a mirror) determined that a child becomes self-aware at about 18 months. Now, this test is faulty for obvious reasons - how do you empirically measure a "reaction"? But it draws attention to the fact that we don't actually know what self-awareness is or how to measure it, and in fact, we don't know how to define "human".
So really, it's just a shouting match about arbitrary definitions. One side has decided that life begins at (or just before) birth, one side has decided that life begins at conception. It's not really a debate we can resolve fully because it hinges on a semantic issue.
A point I've personally concluded: in cases of rape or risk of the mother's life, I am unequivocally in favor of the woman's right to choose. A second, related point involves the role of the father. The father has the freedom to walk away from the pregnancy without carrying any of the burden. That's a troubling thought. Insofar as the father does not have to carry or risk life in birthing the child, the mother should be afforded similar freedoms.
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dom180
Wow. That was very clever, and I totally agree. The crux of the argument rests on the definition of humanity, which scientists and philosophers have been debating without result for many hundreds of years. In that sense, the issue of morality and abortion is by its nature unanswerable without embellishment on semantic details. It is my prediction that no embellishment will occur in the foreseeable future.
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That's a nice boxed up and wrapped answer complete with a little bow on it, but how do YOU feel about YOUR abortion?? I know you're a guy, but you know what I'm saying....I don't think you can honestly say that you'd feel nothing, and think of it as just a 'thang' and never think of it ever again.
This isn't my poll and I don't know if the asker is asking the same thing as me....but whatever. If you set aside your arguements and thoughts as to why it should be legal or when life begins, I'd just be interested in knowing how you felt about the act if you were involved personally in it. I just hate how people try to use the whole 'it isn't alive yet' arguement and deny that they'd have any feelings about it. That's not how it is in real life, I've been there myself more than once....and the partners involved were very much OK with abortion in general but were VERY affected by it when it became personal, more so than me...a lot more (it didn't affect me much at all), and affected them for a significantly long time after (probably still, but I don't know).
Is it so hard to admit or realize that you might have a feeling about it that doesn't necessarily go along with your logic?
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seabird_71
Taciturn's a dude? Had no idea.
Well taciturn, you and I agree on a lot of stuff, especially this one.
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taciturn
Whoa whoa, hold your horses. I'm not saying people should get abortions; I'm not saying it's good; I'm not saying it feels good. I'm sure it's a fucking awful position to be in and an awful decision to make. I'm saying they should have the right to if they want to. It's a tough decision but it should be theirs to make.
When did I say that I'd "feel nothing, and think of it as just a 'thang' and never think of it again"? What an odd assumption. I think we can all agree that aborting a child is an emotionally traumatizing process, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to choose it. So yes, I'm intellectualizing it, because there's not much discussion to be had about whether or not it would feel bad to have an abortion. Of course it would. I didn't mean to belittle that.
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EdWall234
It's a person's choice to make a child, no law saying they can't. So why can't they have the same choice to abort one?
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pandabear1209
I'm pro choice, as long as the woman gets it by the 2nd trimester. After that the baby has hands, feet, and ears. and its like fuck, you already made it 6 months just go the rest -.- plus think of the boom in population if no one got abortions, how many kids would have no homes, people aren't gonna suddenly stop having sex or start havin safe sex.
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Ibelievethis
Abortion is taking a life, and in my book taking life is murder. The baby has just as much right to live as the person carrying it. There are plenty of contraceptives that a women can take to prevent these unwanted pregnancies x
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bogsidebunny
Aborting a foetus (not-yet-born or viable outside the womb POTENTIAL person) is merely removing a benign growth (like a tumor). If the woman so desires it then the abortion should be carried out without any religious or LEGAL (A social control mechanism) interference.
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Rhuarc
All forms of abortion are murder but most especially later termed abortions. I dare each and everyone of you to watch a baby being aborted and you tell me how that is not murder. Think of it this way what if you were the one being aborted would you not want a chance at life? Even if you were put in an orphanage wouldn't you at least want a chance? How is it right that some immoral woman and man feel the urge to fuck for no other reason but pleasure and she gets pregnant and because she is too lazy and doesn't want the hassle kills you are a baby. If you can't handle the responsibility of child rearing then DO NOT HAVE SEX it is simple as that.
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dom180
It depends if the unborn child could survive if birth occurred naturally at the time of the abortion. If it could, I think it counts as murder because the collection of cells could survive; it could reasonably be called a human being.
If the child could not survive if birth occurred naturally it is unreasonable to classify it as a human being, so it cannot be murdered.
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You're not addressing the purposeful 'interruption' of the abortion. If the fetus had been left alone, it would've been fine and turned into a human.
What if a man killed his 4 months pregnant wife, knowing she was pregnant? Is he guilty of more than her murder? (put the ACTAUL law aside for these questions, just answer as to how you feel)
Or what if someone got into a fistfight with a pregnant woman and caused the death of her unborn baby?
I'm all for abortion, FYI, I'm just genuinely curious as to how you'd answer those questions.
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taciturn
So if you kill a man, should you be charged with killing the infinite people that his sperm and offspring's sperm could have grown into? That makes no sense.
Am I a murderer for masturbating?
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seabird_71
If someone were to kill a pregnant woman (let's say of 4 months), then they should be charged for the murder of two people. If someone decided to beat up a pregnant woman and killed her unborn baby, then that's murder of one person. Because had they not have done that, that unborn baby would have more than likely been born, and grew up to be an adult. And taking someone's life like that... is murder.
It's a touchy subject but it only seems logical.
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dom180
I would say that the potential future of the unborn child is totally unimportant. The present is the only issue at hand. If a female dog is neutered, you are not guilty of the killing of it's potential future puppies, because there is nothing to kill but potential. Potential is not a living thing, so nothing was murdered. I'm not sure how coherent that sounds, but it is what I would argue.
I would say that the man murdering his pregnant wife should not be guilty of the murder of the child, because I would argue that the unborn child is not alive but a part of the future-mother. Until the child can survive if it were born, I would classify the future-mother and child as a single person. Therefore, only one murder.
The same is true for the fistfight perpetrator. She or he would be guilty of causing Grievous Bodily Harm, because a part of the woman has permanently damaged beyond repair, but not murder because nothing died that was a distinct human being (this is presuming the pregnancy to be at 4 months. If it was after that time, I would see it as murder, because something that can be seen as a distinct human being was killed. Manslaughter could be pled if the perpetrator had no way of knowing the pregnancy was over that length of time).
It might sound cold and callous, but that is how I read those scenarios.
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Just another question for you....
What if you were driving along in your car and accidentally hit and killed a woman. A couple days later, after the autopsy, you're told the woman was 3 months pregnant. Do you think you'd feel worse, or would you feel exactly the same as you did before you were told that?
Just asking!! I'm 100% OK with abortion, and I don't want to see any laws change that would jeopardize the legality of abortion or anything like that...I'm just asking these questions because I find it funny how some people try and try to make it so scientific, and figure out when 'life' begins. I don't think it matters what someone says they believe as far as that goes, I think 100% of mentally stable people still 'feel wrong', or uneasy, or guilty to some degree, about actually causing the 'death' of a fetus. Know what I'm sayin??
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dom180
I might feel uneasy, but I don't know if I'd feel any worse. I might feel guilty, but I'd try to justify it, convince myself of the truth that I couldn't've known.
I don't know if I'd succeed in justifying it to myself; I think I probably would. But then again, that situation is so alien to me there is no way of me guessing how I would react.
I think understand what you are saying though. I'm not sure if I would feel uneasy though, or any more uneasy than I was already. I can be very detached like that; I'm not sure if that is a weakness or a strength. I don't know how much I count as "mentally stable" either!!
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OK, OK....well, dismiss the dog thing because that's going a little too far backwards.
Well, then, what if the man killed his wife BECUASE she was pregnant? Or the person beat up the pregnant woman with the intent of ending her pregnancy?
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Haeven
And also call me a pessimist but yeah youre killing a potential life but you could also be preventing another hated person/criminal from coming into the world. Bcuz i here the "well youre taking away another potential at life." Argument a lot concerning this subject but you dont know what that baby will grow up to be like, especially being born into a family where it will be that unwanted. Just my opinion.
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Haeven
No, i honestly think its better than bringing another unwanted child into the world. And if someone isnt ready for a baby they arent ready, dont think they should be forced to have it. And there are already more than enough people in the world, its not like were lacking in the people department.
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Knight_Riot
Abortion is a choice, and we as humans have the right to choose abortion, and if ur some religious fuk nut then get over it if god dosent want a baby to be aborted then let him stop it, untill then stop picketing abortion clinics its tuff enough a decesion as it is with out u out there telling thies wemen thier murderers. If its such a sin to allow some one to "murder" your child then your god should be held acountable fir letting a bunch of guys whip the shit out his son and nail him to some sticks... And if abortion is murder than is bustin ur load on ur wifes chin abandonment? Get over it abortion is not murder, and the break throughs in the medical industry that fetuses provide through stem cell reaserch might one day save ur life...
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[Old Memory]
id abort people if there wasnt a lengthy prison sentence at the end of it lol
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Lynxikat
If the mother is in the third trimester, then yes, aborting the baby is killing it. If it's in the third trimester, abortion should only be an option if the mother's life is in danger or if the baby is stillborn.
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BlueBarracuda
Well the way I see it, if you're raped, molested or you're going to die, or something similar, then yes, abortion is acceptable, but I don't think some dumb skank should go get hammered, sleep with a guy and not even have the common sense to use a condom or birth control, then have say in if the being her irresponsibility created lives or dies. Hell, anyone who doesn't think to use protection shouldn't have that choice. There are plenty of people who would be willing to adopt, and if you don't want a kid, or if you aren't ready, you should of thought of that before you spread your legs.
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[Old Memory]
Not sure. I think it's killing a potential human being, although it isn't actually killing a baby. Perhaps preventing a life is a better description of it rather than killing a life?
I don't know. But, what if someone his a pregnant woman's stomach and killed the potential baby? Would that be seen as murder?
I think the human being becomes one when it's able to think, feel and act.
I think the early stages of preganancy suggests it to be a potential life, not an adctual life. So having an abortion would just be preventing a life from happening, not killing a life.
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bananaface
I can see why people would think that it is murder, because that baby has the potential to live a possibly long life, and by aborting it the person is taking that opportunity and potential away from them. Think about your life, would you want it to have been aborted? So, I guess it is murder.
However, at the stage in the pregnancy it's done might make it less of a murder kind of. Some might argue that it hasn't had it's life taken away, as it hasn't had a life yet.
IMO, I think it is murder. Despite this though, I am still pro abortion. I think the woman should have the right to decide whether she gets rid of her child, because sometimes the child's quality of life would be so terrible that putting it "out of it's misery" early on would only benefit the child and the guardians.
However, it's a very difficult decision to make, and I think that a lot of women need to realise that they are making one of the biggest decisions possible, they are ultimately deciding whether to allow this baby a life or not. Way too many women use abortion like it's the morning after pill etc, without any genuine consideration.
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seabird_71
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Corleone
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