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Is it normal for a doctor (psychiatrist) to tell a 15 years old child to stop having depression because other people have bigger problems? It happened to me 3 years ago. :I
PS: Surely it's up to a highly qualified professional not to say anything which could be misinterpreted in such a way?
Ah, but communication is tricky. You never know what seemingly simple thing can be taken in a different manner than intended. Professionals are not immune to this. And considering how melodramatic teens are in general, it is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make when one isnt privy to doctors notes or the dull conversation. We just have one side. So you have to wonder which is the best for the individual. Let them think all doctors sucks, or let them feel like there is another option.
Did you ever keep a journal? I did. And so did many of my friends. Looking back on my 16 year old self is hilarious. Doctors today would likely have offered me drugs and placed several labels on me. But is that really fair to a person? To assume a kid that has depressive thoughts cant deal on their own without medical intervention. Perhaps the doctor was only trying to point out that it is normal to be a crazy melodramatic teenager and feel all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons.
op - I mean no disrespect. I do not know your story. It is entirely possible that you spoke to a bad doctor. But it is also possible that you didn't really need one in the first place and you are just empathetic.
I would've written down my whole story, but then it would mean that I am whining. Plus noone asked for it.
The reason why what the doctor said hurt me wasn't because I was sad or anything, but because I'm never really occupied with my problems actually and I only think of others. I don't care if people use me, that's why I exist, no? So that I can be useful. I could tell you: im poor, my parents are severely ill mentally, i have noone to trust (except internet people), im sick, im bullied, and so on, but that wouldn't mean anything. Like here, I have said it, and now you'll probably say that you have problems too and these are common and I should just suck it up. Okay, but would it help? Would forgetting about my problems make them disappear? What if you would just take 2 minutes to write me a reply in which you give me motivational advice instead of acting so cold. Are you afraid of seeming weak for giving someone a piece of good word instead of acting like you don't care? I have yet to understand the psychology of people who fake their confidence to always and always be right. I know you're just being objective, but I guess you could assume that Ellenna does in fact know more about my situation if she speaks so clearly and sure in herself. And why are you so sure that if someone is 15 years old they must be ungrateful children, just because today's society is messed up and manipulated by media and ads? A doctor shouldn't reject a child in that manner, she's paid to be there and care about the patient. Sure, doctors do mistakes, but that wasn't the theme of my post. :P
I'm a little confused. You dont think the doctor made a mistake?
And I meant no offense. I was trying to give you an alternative theory, not jump on the hate bandwagon. Not all psychiatrists are bad. And I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear. I'm going to give you my perspective. Agree or disagree, it will always be honest.
Probably because you identify with authority against those with less power, in this case a shrink and a teenager
It is unwise to try and read me. I do not identify with authority as much as I speak with confidence. Coming from a place of little power, it has helped me achieve much in this life.
What an interesting response, it describes me too, except that having moved from powerlessness in my own life I tend to be vigilant about those in authority wielding power over others, such as shrinks over patients.
This is such a long thread I can't locate your comment I was responding to, so if I misread you I apologise.
You sound like you project your own emotions and experiences onto others.
I am not a vigilante of any kind. And I know a great number of therapists and natural counselors. They are not people to fight.
Being vigilant doesn't make one a vigilante! One is about being observant and questioning, the other is about taking drastic action outside the law.
I also know a great number of therapists and "natural" counsellors and have counselling training myself, but I've also come across a great number of unethical, arrogant, ignorant and dangerous counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists of all kinds and unqualified "natural" therapists.
One "spiritual counsellor" I know of told a friend of mine that her relationship issues were due to past life experiences when it was fairly obvious they were due to a violent and sexually abusive childhood: focussing on "past lives" where the "counselling" came from the imaginary crap the "counsellor" was dishing out deflected her for years from getting real life-changing therapy. That's only one example, living where I do in a community which includes a lot of "newage" (rhymes with sewage) people has given me many more examples of this sort of dangerous bs.
One of these types, still practising locally, told me I was now safe from a stalker because he'd had a dream where he protected me! He was also far too touchy feely for my liking: a child sexual abuse survivor doesn't want an older male counsellor holding her hand and stroking her arm - I got out of there fast and didn't go back.
I also know of a number of highly qualified counsellors who've ended up in sexual relationships with one or more of their clients: talk about an abuse of trust! The result: needy people ending up in a worse state than before they saw the counsellor.
And of course I also know good hardworking emphathetic counsellors and am seeing two at the moment for different issues in my life: I'm just saying we should be wary when in a vulnerable state about what sort of therapy we get ourselves into. Sometimes we can be so desperate for help we'll accept anything that's dished out
Nope. That doctor is a certified fried douche dipped in the smelliest of anal juices.
Wow, talk about unprofessional. Most doctors I know abuse patients to push pills but damn this is a whole new level of stupid. No you never talk to a patient like this! You are the doctor you are suppose to care about the patients problems not minimize them. I dont even think you talk to clients at a store this way. This would be unprofessional in any work setting, especially psychiatry. Glad to know the field is getting stupider maybe if more of them do this crap we can finally get a few of them fired.
Lol, once when I hang myself in the hospital bathroom the assistants acted the same way. The first thing they said was that they could've lost their job because of me (if I died). Then one of them told me that it's not me who is suffering, but the bad spirits inside me make me suffer (haha what even). They asked if I'm an atheist, I said yes, and they said they knew it all the time because of my clothing (lol??? a black, coca-cola t-shirt?). I laughed a bit bc I felt awkward and maybe tired and they ashamed me, and laughed in my face ironically like two psychopaths and they said "we're making laugh therapy then!" in a mean voice. And guess what? I hang myself because I felt guilty that I have more than others, I was, after 2 years, still traumatized by the event when the doctor shamed me because I have problems too (aka cuz im human). I was embarassed, hurt, and treated without any respect.
'well yall doctors make too much money and theres peoples with financial problems so i aint payin yall no more'
I had something similar happen to me. I had a psychologist say my life was good so just stop being depressed... what was said to you and to me (essentially the same thing), is like textbook psych 101 what NOT to say to a depressed person. Sorry both of our doctors sucked :(.
I'm sorry to hear that. :c
You know, it doesn't matter whose problems are bigger or whose lives are better. There's no comparision in suffering. All feelings and problems/traumas are real, and anyone who refuses to listen to you is a big jerk, especially if it was his job to do that and got payed for that. Just because someone has bigger problems it doesn't make him/her a better or more important person. Some might have big problems and ignore them, and some might break up with a guy and cry over it for years. What really matters are the feelings associated to the trauma and the person's mentality about it. I'm sure there are people in this world who understand our feelings.
Ah, and some people say that to make you feel better, not with the intention to bring you down. They think that if you feel grateful for what you already have will solve all your problems. However, when THEY have a problem they just whine about it to everyone. So yeah, it's not so nice.
That approach doesn't work if someone is genuinely depressed, it usually just makes the person feel guilty for being depressed which is hardly helpful.
I know, but what I don't know is why some people fail to understand this thing. Yes, when you have a minor thing, like didn't get the phone you wanted it's okay to say "Well, that's not such a big problem, there are worse things in this world", but when someone doesn't have anyone to trust, fails at school, doesn't have a job or lost someone (because they died or simply left) it's utterly rude to say such thing.
It's also very dangerous because it can tip someone into a worse state of depression with dire consequences - much worse than just rude, I suspect you're far too polite for your own good!
Take care of yourself: I assume you have good support in your life now?
Idk what state of mind it tipped me into, but all I could think about was disabled people disaled people disabled people... until I learned about them, read some books, and only recently got over that state. Now I'm back to depression. And it's good. I'd rather be sad because of my own problems than become obsessed with people I haven't even met. You can't even imagine how bad it was... My only wish was to be sad, to be heart-broken like normal teenage girls, without feeling bad about it. I'm not the type of girl who posts dark pics to Tumblr or writes desperate posts to facebook, I just sit in my room and write surreal stories. They make me laugh =)
Well... I have you guys, haha. You're pretty much my whole support. My family isn't that "smart", idk how else to explain this... when I talk to grandma she tells me to stop being sad because it isn't worth it. It's a good thing she cares about me though, but it's not the support I need.
Perhaps your doctor thought you were not really depressed. Perhaps he knew a bit more about psychiatry than a 15 year old girl. Perhaps we aren't getting the whole story here?
So what was the upshot? Did you ignore him or get better?
Not really depressed? Is that why I travelled 200km and vomited several times on the bus, and is that why I was taking like 3 types of antipsychotics and calmants? She just came and told me to stop thinking about MY LOOKS! She didn't even listen to what I said. I was depressed because I heard Africans have a tough life and I was crying about that day-night. The actual reason of my depression was other people having bad lives! And I told her that, but she didn't care. I also have atypical family, past traumas and other stuff I'd rather not talk about. It was really nasty from her to say such thing to me.
I didn't ignore her because I felt what she said it was true.. I felt that my problems aren't important and my feelings don't matter. Sure, now I know it was a stupid thing to care about that, but back then I was much younger and stupid. And I was just wondering if it's normal for a doctor, or anyone, to say such things to you. I think it's really ignorant and inconsiderate. :/
You weren't stupid to care about what a shrink said, but now you're older you don't have to accept it: they can be wrong and despite what other people on here are assuming, they often are!
Years ago I was seeing one who would not be there for appointments when I'd travelled for 2 hours on public transport and not even apologise; who told me I could always ring her between appointments if I was desperate but who either didn't pick up the phone or didn't take the call privately away from the demands of her husband.
Of course there are some good ones, but there are also a lot of shitty ones and I totally agree that you unfortunately did have an ignorant and inconsiderate one.
I hope you life is better now and please, stop calling yourself stupid because you're obviously not and you were only 15 at the time
And perhaps even a 15 year old knows more about her own feelings than a shrink? Or you and others on her who seem to assume a shrink can't be wrong?
I know someone who goes to a therapist who told him to stop thinking he's a dragon one time..... Yeah
Well then, she's totally unprofessional to allow that to affect how she relates to her patients. Any respectful person supposedly offering support & validation, whether a shrink or not, can choose to put their personal issues aside and concentrate on the other person: if unable to do so, cancel the appointment
In the context in which you are presenting it, I would say no. But I have to believe that was not the entire conversation.
Me: I'm depressed. *actually takes 2-3 types of pills to keep her normal*
Me: I'm sad because Africans and other poor people have bad lives.
Her: I understand.
Her: You know, when I was your age my uncle told me that I should stop caring about my looks because some people are in wheelchair. It was a "slap" I needed back then.
Me:
Her: *invites priest to talk to me about how many good things I have*
Priest: How do you feel?
Me: I'm okay, tnx :)
Priest: See, you're not an extraordinary person, you're just OK. *psychotic smile*
Me: Ok... :(
And no, I didn't make this up. That's how fucked up it was, I swear. >:(
Well if that is exactly how it went that that is much different from your post. The biggest difference is that you weren't just ignored and sent away with out treatment of any kind as your post suggests, you are already on medication.
Also, no where in this dialogue does the doctor say "stop having depression because other people have bigger problems?" The only thing even similar to this is her telling you about something her uncle told her when she was a child. But she wasn't telling you this directly, and it is not nearly as blunt as what you describe.
I won't comment on the priest because he is not a medical professional and so I couldn't care less what he thinks.
So, in regard to what you posted, is it normal? NO
In regard to the conversation you just described to me, is it normal? Yes.
That is just bullshit and what's the bet they wouldn't have treated an adult male in that way? It's well known that young people and women are often treated like mindless children by the shrink industry.
I don't understand what the priest was getting at, but the worst thing your doctor did was invite him to talk to you. If her anecdote struck you so hard, you perhaps find some truth in it and just have trouble accepting that she's right.
Isn't she kind of ignorant? I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have said that in front of a disabled person. Disabled people are the same as we are, sometimes even better, and they don't like being pitied (or being called "people-in-wheelchair", as it implies that the wheelchair is part of them, and it is not!). And I was sad because my problems were ignored and being looked at as unimportant. If someone has bigger problems than me, does it make them more important than I am?
She needed to hear something that made her feel more depressed? Any shrink who invalidates someone's feelings should go and dig ditches or something more useful than putting down people who already feel bad about themselves.
They're supposed to LISTEN not tell you how you feel is wrong or inappropriate, if not they're arrogant and disrespectful. The problem is the only patients who'd feel strong enough to walk out the door would be the ones who didn't need to be there in the first place: anyone already depressed would just feel worse but would probably be kept quiet and well-behaved with a script for anti-depressants
Sure they can listen but its also their job you give you perspective, and sometimes that means hearing things you might not wanna hear. Based on the actual conversation I wouldn't think this shrink was way out of wack, I just think she's working with someone who is very young and didn't understand her.
Shrinks get paid to validate you and I think it can be unhealthy if that's all that's happening. I suppose though if you just want to pay someone to tell you to feel better, go ahead, get upset that she told you others have it just as bad if not worse.
And secondly, if starving children in Africa really wears on you that much, do something about it instead of just wallowing in a first world pity pot.
I agree total validation of everything isn't positive in the long run and nor is just telling someone to feel better, but I still think this shrink's response trivialised OP's feelings.
I do what I can about starving kids in Africa by making half my gifts to family gifts to poor villages: do you?
If it didn't help see a different doctor. Although, that's one way to think of things, so it might work for some people.
She's right, you know.
Inner struggle can feel like a war zone, but in reality it's not even close. The difference between a wounded child and a wounded veteran is that the child perceives theirself to have the problems of the wounded veteran. I don't know what you've been through, but it's likely that you have little to worry about in comparison to the wounded veteran. He would be happy to have your home, your limbs, your opportunities. Those are not your problems, so let them be and don't worry about what you can't control.
I'm not saying your feelings don't matter. Of course they do. But perhaps your anxiety and depression will decrease when your appreciation for what you do have increases.
Maybe you were too young to handle your doctor's tough love, but really think about it and try to appreciate that advice. Sometimes the truth just hurts.
I can't believe how many people on here seem to think shrinks are gods! Your post is patronising and ignorant.
As someone more compassionate and wise than you posted above, what matters is the person's FEELINGS about their situation, not the exterior circumstances. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, PEOPLE, JUST ORDINARY EVERYDAY RESPECT
I agree it's pointless to worry about what we can't control but it seemed to me that could've been a symptom of her depression and probably a way of avoiding her own situation.
I agree that it's important to be grateful for the good things we do have and try and take the focus off the negative, but a seriously depressed person just can't do this.
It wasn't tough love, it was arrogance and disrespect
I wasn't aware of my shrink worship, but I'll work on that for sure.
I keep saying it's ok to feel however one may feel, it's real and valid. However, when those feelings become a problem it's time to start thinking differently. Why would you think it's ok to reward someone's feelings that are just eating away at them? So they can feel that way forever because it's ok? People put too much trust into their emotions, their unstable emotions.
I'm no stranger to depression so i know you can't just push a button and turn off the negative thoughts, but you can combat them by forcing yourself to think differently, albeit it takes time, persistence and will power.
It's not rewarding the feelings, it's accepting them. You have to accept yourself in order to change. Just like the intrusive thoughts. The more you push them away the more they come. You have to let them come, so you can let them go. She's not rewarding my negative feelings, she's refusing your way of "coping" with depression.
And there's one more thing I refuse to do: gaining happiness from other people's suffering. I can't let human suffering become the fuel of my well-being. If I'm going to be happy, I'm going to do it myself, fuel it with laughter and joy, not with the images of poor veterans and african children. I believe that is the right thing to do.
Eh, well, everyone has to find their own way. I think about these things more abstractly than visually, so I guess I can see how that thought would bring more guilt to you than I.
I've been around a lot of people who were in worse situations than me and I just feel like an ass when I complain about something that would be insignificant to them. The guilt was unavoidable because these were real people that I knew personally, so the only thing I could do is just appreciate what I do have going for me.
Aww, but there's no need to feel guilty just because you have more than them. I'm sure that if they were in your place they would enjoy their lives without problems just like you do right now. :) Noone chooses their lives, that's why it's important to think twice when you speak to someone, even if they seem better off than you are. I know you're a great person, Freedom_, and I know that you just wanted to protect me from my emotions, but I'm just fine, trust me! I'm not ungrateful, and I only buy what's neccessary cuz I'm kinda poor and yeah. My internet friends often feel sorry for me for living in a poor country and having no friends, and I don't understand why? I'm pretty sure that would be the same reaction of the people you know personally if they knew you are sorry for them. Noone likes to be pitied. It makes them feel like there's a reason for people to feel sorry for them, when all they want is to be accepted as normal human beings. Noone knows if they are going to have even better lives than you could ever thought of or if your life is going to be worse than it is now. That's why we should live in the present and stop comparing ourselves to others, it's just unhealthy. I'm glad if it helps you, but some people just feel uncomfortable to hear that. Of course there are worse cases than mine, but that shouldn't stop me caring about my problems or make me feel any better. It's easier if you tell me a good word or help me by listening to what I have to say. It's all that someone could ask for. Ellenna stood up for me and it made me feel like I'm not alone. I will never forget this. It will be a moment I will always cherish in my heart. But if you compare me with others, it will bring me down and cause me pain. That's why you should try to be more empathic to people instead of trying to "teach" them a lesson.
He didn't mean it though... He just wanted to help. I just wish he could understand how it feels. It's not that I'm just having a bad day, my whole life is a mess. People might think "Oh, she probably just had a break-up or doesn't have too much friends". It's not that! I understand it though that people who have normal parents and normal families and lives will never understand someone who has ill or psychopath parents and who is ill herself (+ the depression.. my depression is the last thing I'm worried about though atm). I'm really thankful to you for being here and listening to me, Ellenna, that's all I needed. Nothing more. You're a great person.
I'd rather be the wounded veteran. Actually, I have the habit of hanging myself sometimes from the neck. I'm not afraid of physical pain or wounds.
Also, are you implying that my emotions are not in reality? And even if the veteran wanted my life, there's no point of wishing for it, he will never have it anyway, just like I won't have his problems either. So what's the point of this? You can only imagine what the veteran or the child feels, so it's just your imagination. Comparing your problems to others' problems is imagination, thus unreal because you don't know exactly how they feel.
If someone came to you crying, trusting that you can help him, would you let him down by telling him the story of the veteran or actually help him? Just because others have problems it won't make mine disappear. You just can't be so insensitive!
I'm not trying to be insensitive. Many Veterans have physical wounds on top of their emotional/mental wounds. The non physical wounds are usually the most painful. Believe me, I know how you feel and I know how tough advice like that can hurt, but it sounds like you're seeking pity. You can wallow in your self-pity but it's not going to get you anywhere. Understanding that you are blessed to have what you have will ease your pain. The wounded veteran's understanding of his blessings will ease his pain. The people in the shitiest situations make the best of what they have and feel blessed just to be alive and stay strong because they are loved, if by no one else by themselves. Someone obviously loves you because they cared enough to try to help you and you should appreciate that. It may not be ideal but it is love.
Your pain is not invalid. Your pain is real. But it's your choice if you're going to let your pain dictate your life.
Thanks, I see you're really trying to help, but it just doesn't do much. I don't want pity, I want someone to listen to me and understand me instead of telling me I don't matter. I know what you mean, but these kind of statements make people feel guilty for being sad. I know that's not what you mean when you tell someone that others have it worse, but they just feel guilty, and think they have done something bad for the simple fact that they felt upset. I never told anyone about my problems, I never whine, I'm usually the one that helps people with their problems, that's why I joined Yahoo Answers, that's why I joined IIN and other sites. Problems are good. Problems are great. Without problems you can't learn and evolve into a better person. I don't want pity, I don't want love, I don't even want to "live", I just want to exist in peace and be sad without people telling me I shouldn't be. It's just rude. It's really, really rude to control people's emotions with guilt-tactics like this. It doesn't help!
If her intention was to make you feel guilty, then yes, that is wrong. But if she was trying to help you put things into perspective I would have to agree.
Whether you want it or not, if you have love in your life you should appreciate that. It could be the greatest justice you can do for those less fortunate than you.
But I don't want to be happy, I just want to be left alone and respected by my people. And my mentality won't make any change in other people's lives. It's not that if I'm happy I'm making something good in the world. I feel good being sad, sitting alone in my deep hole of darkness. But it feels bad being guilty. And whatever the intention is, the message is the same. Maybe you're not that phylosofical or deep in thought like me, but you have to accept that in my situation telling me to suck it up won't make me feel any better. And I never asked you to make me feel better. I just want to be sad, in peace. That's all I ever wanted. I never bother anyone with it anyway, since I'm not talking about my problems. I keep it for myself, forever.
No, you DON'T know how she feels - that's patronising for a start and to say she's seeking pity or wallowing in self-pity is just disgusting.
Don't you get it? People who are severely depressed CAN'T see anything positive in their lives, it's a symptom of depression, you moron ....
Who loved her? The shrink? NO SHE DIDN'T she treated her like shit, if you think that's love there's something wrong with your definition of love. The shrink was getting paid to LISTEN and empower her clients, not make them feel worse. THAT'S NOT LOVE
Of course at some point when she can get through the depression she may be able to choose what dictates her life BUT SEVERELY DEPRESSED PEOPLE JUST CAN'T DO THAT UNTIL THEY'RE HELPED THROUGH THE SEVERE PHASE
You're fantastic! That was a brilliant reply and you have guts and intelligence - keep it up & don't listen to these people who think someone in authority is always going to be right and a young person invariably wrong.
If you haven't already read it, I'd recommend Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" - I'm on my 4th copy because I keep loaning it to people who don't want to give it back!
And, btw, how do you know what I've been through? Are you expecting that I'm the type of girl that whines that she doesn't get the newest iPhone? I've been terrorized by my dad when I was only 2-3 years old, in fact, my whole family was. And we still are, after more than 10 years. I have noone that I can trust, except from a few internet friends and you guys, but everyone seems to let me down. I can't even afford new clothes, I'm shopping at the second hand, while everyone dresses like queens. You can't compare two distant societies to each other. The people in Asia obviously are living different lives than people in Europe, and they aren't exposed to so many peer pressure than you and I. I'm sure that when you have problems you like to share it with your friends and being listened to and helped. Don't you understand that telling people their problems don't matter hurts them?