Is it normal the ultimate mistrust.

58% Normal
25 Comments

I know I'm going to sound evil saying this. I believe people who sabatoge birth control to get pregnant/get partner pregnant are equal to rapists or cheaters. There needs to somehow be a way to prove when it has been done so the person can be punished severely. I've had two different friends (female) admit to me that they poked holes in the condoms or stopped taking their birth control without telling their partner so they could get pregnant. Even after their boyfriends (yes neither were nor are now married) told them they didn't want kids. I am still utterly enraged and disgusted with my friends. Now the poor guys are stuck with babies they didn't want and tried to prevent. When I see them with the kids they look disinterested, miserable, and defeated. Its very sad. I've been tempted to tell their boyfriends why they're in this situation, but thats not my place to do so. Anyway, is it normal I believe if someone does this the male should get financial abortion from the resulting child(ren), and if a woman had a man sabatoge a condom and gets pregnant should be encouraged (not forced) to abort. I'm female by the way.

Voting Results
58% Normal
Based on 31 votes (18 yes)
Help us keep this site organized and clean. Thanks!
[ Report Post ]
Comments ( 25 )
  • VioletTrees
    11 years ago

    It's an awful thing to do, but it's not the same as rape. Also, cheating is not on the same level as rape, so I don't know how you can say "equal to rapists or cheaters". That doesn't make any sense.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    4
    4
      -
    • [Old Memory]
      11 years ago

      I would dissagree and agree. Obviously it is not the same as rape, but the outcome is just as painful in the long term. Physical rape is trageic, but having to live a life you never wanted or be punished if you refuse all because someone tricked you? I see that as far worse, since you are forced to live in a certain way.

      I agree with the rest, though.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      0
      0
        -
      • VioletTrees
        11 years ago

        I don't think men should be obligated to stick around or pay for the child when this happens, of course. The thing is, with the present law, they have to pay child support (I assume this is how it works in the UK, too), which isn't as bad as years of living with trauma and possibly PTSD.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        0
        0
          -
        • [Old Memory]
          11 years ago

          Sometimes it can get that bad that they can barely support themselves, and some even become homeless. I would much rather be raped than have to deal with the hardships of paying most of my life for something that I tried to protect again, that someon else made happen by sabotage, that I can barely support myself.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
            -
          • VioletTrees
            11 years ago

            Hmm, obviously the best solution to this sort of situation for women to never do that, but seeing as that's pretty much impossible to control, I think male birth control (that can't be sabotaged as easily as condoms) would be a good solution. Unfortunately, most male birth control right now is permanent (like vasectomies), and that's obviously not a solution for people who might want children in the future. A pill or injection would be preferable, and scientists are working on that as we speak.

            I'd like to point out that homelessness can be a result of rape, too. It's kind of a worst case scenario, of course, but so is the situation you described. Rape can lead to PTSD, which can easily lead to unemployment. In the US, even a rape kit can be prohibitively expensive (it's illegal for hospitals to charge for rape kits, but they do it anyway), not to mention any additional medical care needed, such as abortion, emergency contraception (which, in some states at least, pharmacists are allowed to refuse to provide if it's against their personal morals), psychiatric care, and treatment for injuries or diseases as a result of rape. While abortion is legal in the US, many states have laws designed to make it difficult for women to get abortions, such as laws requiring extensive counselling and misinformation about the risks of abortion, and laws requiring that women under the age of 18 get both parents' consent for abortion. It's very, very difficult to get financial assistance for disabilities such as PTSD here, too, so that's often not an option. My point is that rape can absolutely financially ruin a victim (of any gender) in the US. Obviously, many of these issues are different in the UK, but if we're talking about worst case scenarios, you can't just consider the worst case on one side of a debate.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            0
            0
              -
            • [Old Memory]
              11 years ago

              Reply to me. I don't have time at this moment to reply in full, so reply to me so I get the notification and don't forget to reply.
              Thanks.

              Comment Hidden ( show )
              0
              0
    • Mmmpfh
      11 years ago

      This is exactly what I was going to say. Rapists, cheaters and condom-sabotaging women are all entirely different things.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      0
      0
  • wigsplitz
    11 years ago

    I agree that it's a despicable thing to do, but there's still a factor of personal responsibility. The courts can't be involved in bullshit like this. People know, if a man puts his penis inside a woman, there's ALWAYS a chance she can get pregnant, birth control or not. If you're not ready to have a kid, then don't have sex. Period.

    People know that this type of thing goes on, so it just makes THEM more foolish for not protecting themselves, no one else is to blame. Ask yourself this, would you stick a used needle in your arm? Probably not. Why? because we know that is risky. Even though 'only' 1 in 1000 people have HIV, most of us would still not take that risk. Those who DO take the risk, would you reward them? Would you advocate absolving them of any and all responsibility?

    The proposals you make to rectify this situation only punish the kid and society as a whole, and we had nothing to do with it!! A child won't be punished for the mistakes of the parents and neither will taxpayers. The child would still be eligible for government handouts if needed, and the absence of a parent heightens the likelihood of need by a lot.

    I'm guessing you're young and probably don't pay taxes or vote, but for those who do...know this...we don't want to pay for people's stupidity, nor will we vote for anyone who encourages it. And to think ANYONE, even most pro-choice people, would approve of 'encouraging' (read:coercing) abortion, you're crazy. The legality of abortion itself is always under challenge, to think anyone would promote coercion of abortion is absurd.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    1
    1
      -
    • [Old Memory]
      11 years ago

      I actually find this pretty disgusting. You are blaming the victim for being victimized. I could do the exact same with rape victims, but then I would be wrong, wouldn't I?

      "You know the risk of being raped, and if you wear revealing clothing while walking alone at night, that's your fault for being foolish for wearing such clothing while going out at night, you know there is a posibility of being raped, so if you are raped, you knew it was a possibility, and so you were foolish for going out. If you don't want raped, don't go outside with revealing clothing at night alone".

      Same thought process. I don't agree with it, just like I don't agree with what you said.

      I'm not going to reply to the whole comment, especially the tax payers part, because you know exactly what I would say in response, and I can't be bothered repeating it over and over.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      1
      1
        -
      • wigsplitz
        11 years ago

        Having sex is not a right. Having risk free sex is not a right. Having recreational sex is not a right. Under the law, there's no such thing as 'recreational sex' anyway.

        The only way to ensure you don't have kids is to not have sex. That's the ONLY, ONLY way. With birth control, there still risk.

        Since the only way to prevent pregnancy 100% is to NOT have sex, the government can't protect you if you DO have sex. There's ALWAYS a risk.

        THINK about it...explain to me how you have the 'right' to risk-free sex? Your entire argument builds upon this incorrect assumption that people have this right, and they simply don't and it's not something our government can give us, either BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST!! You can't be granted something that is not real.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        0
        0
          -
        • [Old Memory]
          11 years ago

          Yes, it is a right to have concentual sex. You have the right to have sex if both people engaging concent to it, that is not concent to sabotage methods of birth control.
          As the definition clearly states this.
          Dictionary quote:
          "Used to indicate one's agreement with a suggestion or to acknowledge a statement or order."

          I really do lack the motivation to get in to this with you. You completely avoided my comparisson aswell, which was the main point, if not the only point I made, and like I said, I don't want to be repeating what I said over and over again.

          Apply my comment in reply to your reply.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
            -
          • wigsplitz
            11 years ago

            You're right, I misspoke, it is a right to have consensual sex.

            I understand your point with your comparison, but it's not a true comparison. You're talking about something that is a crime, the victim has no choice in and that causes injury (rape) and comparing it to something that's completely avoidable by not having sex. Before you have consensual sex, you have every ability to stop and not do it. You're taking a risk, no matter what. The courts will always revert back to that argument, that you went into this by choice and there are known risks.

            There'a also the fact that this situation involves a man, a woman and a child. If the man or woman is deceitful, that's a separate case from the child. Even if it were possible to prove fraud and successfully sue for that in court, the support of the child would still be enforceable as it's a totally different issue. The claim of fraud is against the mother or father, not the child. Figuring out what the 'injury' is here is difficult as well. To sue, you must have measurable injury. Having a baby is not an injury. If you want to call it that, then the other party has the same 'injury' as you so it would be a wash.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            0
            0
              -
            • [Old Memory]
              11 years ago

              No problem about the misspoken part, it happens.

              My rape point is very much comparable. New laws happen, and this is one that should be made. Just because something is a crime, does not mean by default it causes more pain, or worse than things that aren't against the law. If messing up a man's future purposly for your own selfish needs, making the male have to live a life he tried to protect himself against, then I believe it should be a crime.
              You say that my comparison is not a good one, but your reasons for doing so are completely comparable to the situations.

              The victim of a rape had no choice? She did, she chose to go outside, at night, alone, and with revealing clothing, which makes the situation of being raped far more likely to happen.
              Again, I do not agree with that, but it is the same thought process.

              He had choice not to make her pregnant, the choices being, have sex and accept the risks or not engage in sex at all.
              Her choices (rape victim) are to accept the risks of going out alone, at night, wearing revealing clothing or stay inside.

              They are completely comparable.

              Again, she can avoid being raped by not going out in revealing clothing, at night, by herself. Her being raped can be completely avoidable.

              You're taking a risk everyday by walking outside the door, that does not give people the excuse to make a victim of you. Another example would be if someone crosses the road, and someone speeds round the corner and runs them down. They could of taken another route to get to their destination, but they shouldn't of had to think like that, because the person shouldn't of been speeding in the first place, just like the woman should not sabotage the condom.
              You may not be meaning it, but you are unintentionally implying that if someone chooses to do something, then if someone else chooses of their own freewill to do something wrong, then the victim is to accept the responsibility that wouldn;t of happened if they didn't tamper with the situation. You are blaming the victims of so many situations.

              Again, the courts should, and if they revert back to that statement, then they are wrong, plain and simple. That argument can be applied to so many victims and victimizers, just like the rape and car accident examples.

              The difference is that we are talking about delibirate sabotage, they are choosing to do this, and responsibility for "natural" errors such as the condom breaking.

              You're smarter than this, you surely must see what you are doing here, and I do hope it is unintentional.

              A risk is something that is a posibility of a problem, accuring, if we link "risks" with people purposly making problems, then that just destroys reason.

              I don't believe that is fair. If a woman sabotages birth control, he has no way of getting out of it, and the only route to go is do what she wants? Where as if a man sabotages
              a woman, she can abort or put it up for adoption.
              A better idea would be that the child will be put up for adoption. If the mother is deceitful enough to treat someone like that, I believe it is good enough reason for the child to be given to a more stable family.

              I dissagree that to sue someone you have to have an injury. You can sue people for theft and damage, etc, which is what the woman would have done, in a manner of speaking, damaged the man's life.

              Comment Hidden ( show )
              0
              0
  • [Old Memory]
    11 years ago

    I definetly think there should be punishments for people that do this, also abortions or financial abortions for men that do this.
    It should be illegal. If someone is trying to force someone in to parenhood, no matter the reason, by sabotaging birth control methods of birth control, then they deserve to be given a very bad punishment, because they are doing something for their benefit that could destroy any plans the man had for himself.
    Specificly women do this to men, so the majority are not going to make a law that stops women from victimizing people, society is like that.

    I think that if a woman does this, the child is born, she has no way of supporting it herself, then the child should also be taken from her and given up for adoption. This way the child has a family that can support them, and the woman is punished aswell.

    This should not be allowed to continue, it is legally victimizing the males of society, and I feel that one day men will stand up for their mistreatments in the eyes of the legal areas, and I wish I will be around for that time, but I doubt I willl be.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0
  • theaverageatheist
    11 years ago

    that is seriously creepy

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0
  • KeddersPrincess
    11 years ago

    It is a bastardly thing to do, but like VioletTrees said, I wouldn't put it in the same catagory as rape. Rape is a scarring thing that can really damamge someone's mind. Cheating is something a person can get over with time, and the other thing, not as bad as rape but probably worse than getting cheated on. I'd say they are all in differenct catagories.

    But besides that topic, I'm not one who generally believes in abortion (call me a hippie) but I do understand where you are coming from. It definatly isn't right for someone to pull a trick like this, as no one should be forced to be a parent when they aren't ready. So I do agree with you. Although the abortion part does bother me. I guess I can say I'm half and half on this. I don't like the idea of anyone being forced into parenting. That isn't fair to that person, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of killing something because just because it's not born yet, doesn't mean it isn't a life. And sometimes abortions don't always succeed, and a baby can be born without arms, legs, or another limb. You also have to think about that.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0
  • DudeUrFuglyXox
    11 years ago

    its nothing like rape but it's still wrong

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0
  • bleach_baby
    11 years ago

    Erm, firstly rapists are just a little bit worse than cheaters, don't you think?

    But wow, I can't believe you actually know people who've done that. Personally, if I was pregnant and I knew my partner didn't want a baby I'd be totally terrified. That's not normal and I'm sure not common.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0
  • [Old Memory]
    11 years ago

    It would be very difficult to prove, but you're right, it is very very wrong.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0