Is it normal to think theists are in denial?

67% Normal

I can't understand how theists can still be theists if their beliefs can be refuted. Every debate or argument I've ever seen always goes something like:

-"My beliefs are true because of X."
-"X has been refuted and I can prove it."
-"Yes, the evidence shows X is false but there's no evidence to Y. That means my beliefs are fact and everything else is wrong and bad."
-"Y has not been refuted yet, but just because we don't know doesn't mean your god is the answer. How do we know it wasn't another god who did it?"
-"There are no other gods because my god's book says so and anyone who says different has been lied to. Everyone should only read my god's book so everyone can be happy."
-"Your god's book also says Z and if we applied Z to an area of everyday life and took it literally it would be bad for everyone."
-"My gods book also says my god is always right and always good and that I must believe it no matter what. Z was from a different time period and because my god said so it must be Ok because it's in his book."
-"But that would mean your god is bad too and if you think that way then you're also bad."
-"Z is being taken out of context because you don't understand that my god is always good, it's right here in his book! I have faith that my god is always good no matter what you or anyone else says or does because I have faith. I'm going to ask my god to change your mind to believe like I do so we can be friends and you won't be punished forever when you die."

And then the argument is over and theists everywhere feel that they're side has won. I don't understand this!

If any theist took the time to actually try and refute their arguments they could yet they don't. So, why? I can only imagine that they don't want to. Maybe they're afraid to the point where they only surround themselves with people and information that support their beliefs. Isn't this denial?

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67% Normal

Based on 52 votes (35 yes)

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Comments ( 28 )

dom180

11 years ago | pl

Let them live their lives.

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- [Old Memory]
  
  11 years ago
  
  So I noticed that whenever I read one of your comments on a story/poll, more often than not, I feel as though you have already said *exactly* what I was thinking. Its like you took the words out of my mouth- or the text out of my comment haha. I tried to send you a message but I forgot that I need IIN gold for that, which I don't have. But I saw your poem and that was also pretty profound.
  
  If this seems weird...whatever. I felt as though I should express that.
  
  Sorry for the irrelevant comment, OP. I hate it when people hijack my stories/polls so, again, I'm sorry.
  
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  - dom180
    
    11 years ago
    
    Thank you :) There are people on here who I feel that way about sometimes, like they somehow rooted out the words I wanted to say but said them in a better way than I could have.
    That poem in my profile isn't entirely my own; it's actually an adaptation of a song called "Somewhere on Fullerton". I've changed a few of the lyrics (in as minimalistic a way as possible) to personalize them. It's a song about loving a place and relying on it to remain sane but slowly learning you won't be able to stay, which is exactly how I feel about IIN. Only I'm not ready to leave yet, and I don't know quite when I will be - all I know is that I need to. I usually write long profiles, kind of like blog posts, but I haven't been feeling so inclined recently so I've started adapting songs :)
    
    And I wouldn't worry about commenting off-topic, most OPs don't worry about it too much so long as you don't completely take-over.
    
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SuperBenzid

11 years ago

You do not have the evidence to make this claim about all theists.

Say a theist had a personal experience with their deity that they truly believed in. It could be that they had a chemical imbalance, psychosis, had unknowingly ingested hallucinogens, etc. However they are not in denial as their personal experience cannot truly be refuted.

While you have every right to attempt to discredit their conversion attempts of other people, as that is in the public domain. It is simply beyond the ability of any person to refute the personal experiences of another. Obviously a personal experience is not evidence to anyone beyond that individual though.

In the end everyone's experience of life is in some way flawed due to both problems with their senses, flaws in the human mind and an incomplete conception of reality but that does not mean their life experience is based on denial.

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Goomats

11 years ago

You can neither prove more disprove the presence of a deity with the knowledge and technology we have at this time. Your insistence that you can disprove the presence of any higher being is just as disprovable as any religion.

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ajmcrobs

11 years ago

Why is it so hard to believe in a higher power? More so, if people are helped by religion, why do you care? You seem closed minded, and don't want to support people who believe something different.

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- Nectur
  
  11 years ago
  
  I haven't been a non-believer since birth; I was a christian for many years so believe me I understand what it's like:
  
  I never had to worry about dying from an accident or a disease as long as my Mom was praying for my safety. I never had to worry about her dying as long as I believed in god and asked him to keep her safe. I didn't have to fear death because I had grace and knew I would go to heaven when I died. I was special, chosen, blessed, and I didn't have to fear ever being alone. I had a community in overwhelming numbers telling me that they loved me and prayed for my safety. If bad things happened it wasn't my fault, it was because of temptations from something evil trying to pull me in the opposite direction of my happiness but I didn't have to worry because even if I gave in my god would forgive me as long as I meant it. I didn't have to think. I didn't have to wonder. The answers I thought up to the questions no one else could answer were inspired by god so I didn't have to worry about being wrong. I had the upper hand by sheer luck and didn't understand why anyone would reject that. I saw them as just another temptation that needed to be ignored or persuaded. I felt real personal pride when I heard someone had turned their lives over to christ because that meant that someone else could be as happy as me.
  
  It wasn't easy giving that up you know; I wish I could live my life without worry, but I can't. Believing in god ultimately cost me something so much more important than my own happiness:
  
  Now I know and appreciate just how finite I am. That when my hundred or so years are up I'm going to be just as gone as I was before I was born, but I don't have to be afraid, it'll be just like being asleep without dreaming. I can wonder things I couldn't wonder as a christian out of fear. I can think whatever I want. I'm FREE! No one else will ever know what I'm thinking unless I want them to. I want to do good, and it's not because I want a reward for it. I'm not being tempted or tested, life happens to everyone no matter what they believe, and so I don't have to be ashamed to be myself. I don't have to appease anyone or anything to have a happy life. I don't have to feel guilty anymore for being what I am. My species wasn't granted life, we earned it.
  
  So why would I want to spend my life believing that I'm flawed? Why should I believe in something that's trying to take my freedom away if I can't even be sure that it exists? And if it doesn't exist, who then, benefits from my fear? I'm not prepared to be a slave unless it's for a damn good reason, and so far, I don't see one.
  
  I asked this question because I know what's it's like to be a slave; all I want to know is, why would anyone want to? Why deny freedom?
  
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  - ajmcrobs
    
    11 years ago
    
    I find my freedom in Christ. I am not a slave to the world as I once was. When I said it saved my life, I mean it. I was a meth addict, and I was so lost. I'm almost 4 years sober now because I found Jesus.
    
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    - Nectur
      
      11 years ago
      
      I'm glad you're not an addict anymore, but it makes me so sad that you're not giving yourself any credit for becoming sober. Meth is one of the most difficult drugs to overcome and you did it! I empathize with that kind of loneliness; the feeling of being surrounded by people who say they love you yet you still feel alone. I'm sorry you had to go through that. You're a very strong individual for coming out of it alive and well.
      
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hafachick

11 years ago

I am a Christian and I believe God made everything. I don't feel the need to prove His existence. My only job as a Christian is to love everyone else as I love myself and to love God more than anything or anyone else.

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- Nectur
  
  11 years ago
  
  I don't understand this.
  
  I used to be a believer too when I was a child. It was so much easier back then because there were people around me living their lives as though god was a really, real thing. They confirmed what I believed because they, as adults, had access to more information. I figured they knew something I didn't. Like, when I heard in school that the sun was the center of our galaxy I figured that was in correlation with what the bible taught. I assumed that if adults living in this day and age could read from a book that says different and still believe that book was truth that it was for a good reason that I was too young to grasp.
  
  As I got older it got harder to ignore that more and more of what I knew to be true according to gospel was blatantly wrong, and if just one thing can be wrong, how can I accept any of it?
  
  How can anyone deny that the sun is the center of our universe when it's been proven? Is it really possible that anyone living two thousand years ago could know more about our solar system than anyone living right now? Or could know anything?
  
  Then I hear the same old thing, that it's about faith. That you have faith that the bible is true. But if you really do, how is it possible that someone can know the Earth revolves around the sun, yet believe that it doesn't? How is that not denial?
  
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  - hafachick
    
    11 years ago
    
    I believe God made earth revolve around the sun. God made our entire universe. Maybe even a multiverse. He may have even made aliens and we just don't know about it yet. God made science. Biology, chemistry, physics, all of it. He may have even made other dimensions and we don't know about it yet. I think heaven is in another dimension. That's why we don't see it with our eyes.
    
    People have always tried to figure God out, even though the Bible says you can't. Its impossible.
    
    God is our heavely father. He's our dad. When you were a kid, did you know everything about how and why your dad did things? I didn't. Sometimes all I got was a "because I say so". I did know that if I listened to my dad, things would be easier and better for me. I also knew my dad loved me and wanted the best for me. My dad sometimes punished me or left me to learn things the hard way. Sometimes I'd get hurt, but he was always there for me. Even if I did something bad. He always forgave me. That's how God is, too. That's why we are supposed to love eachother and not judge eachother. We are all siblings. We're family. God is our dad. He'll do the judging and punishing when he sees fit to. We might not always think he's fair, but did you think your earth dad was always fair? I sure as
    
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    - hafachick
      
      11 years ago
      
      heck didn't. But I didn't know everything about my dad and what he was thinking. I just had to trust him that he knew best and had my best interests at heart. That's how we should be to God. We should trust Him that he has our best interest at heart and is doing what is best, even if we can't understand Him. And we need to accept that we may never know all the hows and whys about everything.
      
      God created time, space, physics, etc. Just like my earth father created the rules in my house. My dad would sometimes bend or change the rules when he saw fit. God can too. So if the Bible says He created everything in a week, then he did. It just might not be what we in this day and age think of as a week.
      
      If I had spent my teen years trying to understand everything about my dad, or question his every rule, punishment, or action, I would have been frustrated and irritated, maybe angry, etc, because my teenage brain wouldn't have been able to understand his thinking. Parents think differently than children. If I spend my adult life trying to understand everything about God, or question his every rule, punishment, or action, I might get frustrated, irritated, or maybe angry, etc because my human brain isn't able to understand His thinking. I just have to trust he knows best and loves me. I have to have faith.
      
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      - Nectur
        
        11 years ago
        
        You missed the point:
        
        The christian bible, the foundation for all of christianity as it is today, is what I'm questioning. It's the first text ever written that mentions Jesus and a lot of it is wrong; likely because the new testament was written about 15-70 years after he died.(People normally lived to their 30's back then)
        
        Jesus was Jewish; he had a bris, a bar mitzvah, read from the Torah, and even at his crucifixion was still 100% Jewish. He, and all the other Jews, believe in the god yahweh which is also the god you believe in. The Jews, including Jesus, also believed that a man who was actually the son of god would show up and save them if things got bad. Under the Romans things were crazy bad so they were constantly looking for this guy and thought a lot of dudes were their savior.
        
        When Jesus began preaching it was because the Jews at the time weren't practicing the religion like they should. He actually did the opposite of what the Jewish rabbis wanted by leading Jews further away from the faith so they thought he was a jerk. The Romans thought he was a jerk too because Jesus preached that rich people sucked which is what got him crucified.
        
        So the Jews, including Jesus, figured that a Jewish man that everyone hated was around and made them feel better for being poor so they assumed it was him.
        
        The only reason Jews decided to stop being Jews in the first place was because it was really hard to be a Jew; there's a lot you can't do as a Jew that you can as a christian. This is why the Jews don't view Jesus as a messiah, he got a good chunk of people to leave the faith.
        
        After I looked up the history on the bible it set the stage for why it says what it does. What it doesn't do is prove itself as a reason the god yahweh is real. The bible itself is the only thing saying it's real; that's not convincing to anyone unless you're poor, sick, feel oppressed, or have been told you're entire life that it's real and you don't know any different. Either way who doesn't want to believe that they're going to get a reward for following it? They're being told that all they have to do is believe and one day all the bad stuff is going to go away. The Jews believed it so much they changed their faiths because Judaism says you have to do more than just believe.
        
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        hafachick
        
        11 years ago
        
        When I was a teen I wanted scientific proof God existed. I considered myself agnostic at the time. My aunt told me that it would never happen. There will never be scientific proof of God's existence because He won't let that happen. God doesn't want people to be believe in him by proof. He wants us to believe by faith. I was really upset by this. I trust her judgement because she studied the bible in college and taught it at a school. She's very knowledgeable about the bible, more than any other woman I know. For a lot of years I refused to believe unless I had proof. It wasn't until was around age 23 that I decided to try having faith. Since then, things have happened in my life that I know were God's doing. My faith is so strong, I don't need scientific proof anymore. There is not a doubt in my mind that He exists. I have not read the entire Bible. I don't really understand it to be quite honest. I have several different translations and they all seem to be a little different. They best thing would be to learn Hebrew and Greek and read the orginals. I'm not going to do that. I don't believe in God because the bible tells me to, or because Im hoping to get rich or am feeling oppressed. I believe in him because of what he's done in my life. Its a personal relationship. When I was a teen I couldnt understand all my aunt was telling me about a personal relationship with God because it seemed so off the wall. Like she had an imaginary best friend. I couldnt believe what the bible said because I thought it could be interpreted any way you wanted. Now I know what she was talking about. It makes sense to me now. When I stopped demanding proof and started having faith, it became clear.
        
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capcrunch6

11 years ago

I'm really getting sick of all these posts bashing other people's religions.

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- Nectur
  
  11 years ago
  
  Why?
  
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Coyetti

11 years ago

I totally agree that they're in denial, but if they want to believe what they do, I see no reason not to let them.

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q1w2e3

11 years ago

Firsts of all people wouldn't believe in their religion if they had doubts in them, at least not for long. So of course they believe their religion is the only one that is true. Having said that, check out my religion's book Quran - quran.com

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suckonthis9

11 years ago

Both are incorrect.

This means that EVERYONE, including you, (and me, before I learned the truth), was incorrect.

There was, and are, creatures who many people had perceived as deities. They are not deities.

There have been many falsehoods and fantasies written about them, but there are some truths as well.

PEOPLE OF PLANET EARTH:

I HAVE THE PROOF, THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR.

Please follow the instructions, in order to communicate with them:

1) You will need quantum computing.

2) There is a 'signal', it is;

A colour modulated duality in the Quark Realm.

-Ambassador of Planet Earth.

Please do not use -ists or -isms.

Thank you.

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- dirtybirdy
  
  11 years ago
  
  Schism
  
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  - SuperBenzid
    
    11 years ago
    
    Jism
    
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    - suckonthis9
      
      11 years ago
      
      Is vulgar slang.
      
      Please use 'semen' or 'ejaculate', instead.
      
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      - SuperBenzid
        
        11 years ago
        
        You're the ultimate tone troll
        
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      - SuperBenzid
        
        11 years ago
        
        prism
        
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  - suckonthis9
    
    11 years ago
    
    'Schism', is not an -ism,
    It's from a different root,
    And it is not a suffixation.
    It is a good description,
    For what these -isms do,
    Such that this point,
    Upon deliberation,
    Will not be considered moot.
    
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    - dirtybirdy
      
      11 years ago
      
      Be quiet.
      
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      - anti-hero
        
        11 years ago
        
        That made me laugh so hard!
        
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Are You Normal?

Is it normal to think theists are in denial?