Modern civilisation and advanced technology are as natural as wild animals

People refer to modern civilisation and advanced technology as being outside of nature, as being unnatural. But 'Natural' refers to things that happen naturally. And it could be argued that civilisation and technology happened naturally. Humans evolved intelligence, and therefore curiosity, naturally as a means to survive. Therefore we naturally evolved to have a tendency to develop civilisation and technology, and therefore we naturally did so (just because we are consciously aware of our developing civilisation/technology doesn't mean it isn't natural, and just because we are distinct from other animals doesn't mean it isn't natural). Therefore it could be argued that pretty much nothing we do could be called 'unnatural', because everything we do is a result of our human nature, which is natural.

Just like every other living organism on the planet, we naturally desire things that would benefit us. It's just that we can be mistaken on what would benefit us. There are people who think we should go back to living in tribes in the wild because it would be more natural and therefore more beneficial, but I disagree with that. It would be detrimental since it would be a step back in progress, and progress is beneficial to us. It is natural for them to want that though because they mistakenly think it would benefit us, and it is natural for people to desire what they think would benefit us.

What do you think about all this? Am I making sense, or am I just another raving lunatic? I'd be interested to hear what others think.

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Based on 15 votes (12 yes)
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Comments ( 32 )
  • dimwitted

    I'm a very shallow person. I can't think that deeply.

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    • LloydAsher

      Hmm good username then.

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  • Jimbo24

    Sure, ultimately, everything comes from matter, therefore everything is natural. But generally, when we say something is "unnatural", it's not so much with scientific accuracy or even with rationality as it is just a way to express a visceral distaste at something deemed too eerily removed from the primitive state, or from how the natural order ought to be.

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  • paramore93

    I agree to a certain extent. Creating technology to make our lives easier seems natural. However, progress for the sake of progress isn't always beneficial. We don't need half of this technology, while damaging the planet and ourselves in the process. The majority of problems faced by indigenous tribal communities are due to our modern thirst for unnecessary 'progress'. Taking a few steps back would be more beneficial IMO.
    If I could choose between "UNEXPECTED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA" or a tribe, I'd choose the latter.

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    • LloydAsher

      Why cant we damage the planet? We can fix it in the future when its economically viable to do so. Sure we might not have Whales or elephants in the wild but they would still exsist due to curiosity sake.

      I'm a humanist as in we are so high on the food chain we are out of it completely thus we should do whatever we want in the intrest of furthering the human race. Though this thought process is also shared with every living thing in exsistance as well but we won that race on earth.

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      • paramore93

        What makes human life more important than elephant or whale life? Just because we have the ability to destroy other species and their homes doesn't mean we should.

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        • LloydAsher

          Our sentience and our intelligence gives us the power to do so. There is no right and wrong when it comes to the natural order. Generally its every species goal to get to the maximum sustainable population. Since we can control our food stores we can grow as far as we want.

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          • paramore93

            This is true. Although, I think we're already above our maximum sustainable population and are killing other species because ours has got out of hand. Shouldn't we be using our intelligence to help/protect other species and the planet, which will in turn benefit future humans?

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            • LloydAsher

              For curiosity's sake? Sure they are nice to keep around. Though they are not vital for human survival.

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  • Doesnormalmatter

    Honestly mate, you are onto something. It depends what you mean tho. Because our bodies are designed for certain things and technology can throw that off. For example modern processed foods have higher levels of sugar than 'natural' foods which can cause health problems. And screens can throw off our bodies hormones and affect sleep which is something I would consider not natural amounts of our eye on lights. So I would like to know whaat you think of examples like these even tho I am not totally saying your wrong.

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    • JellyBeanBandit

      I'm not sure really, maybe this theory isn't perfect and there are a few flaws in it. I came up with this explanation below but I'm no expert so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. I just hate to sound like a pompous pseudo-intellectual know-it-all who thinks he's an expert just cos he has a vague understanding of this kind of stuff, and who can never admit when he's wrong, lol.

      But it seems to me anyway that (like any organism) everything we do, we do because it would benefit us, whether it will benefit us in the long term or in the short term. The long term benefits are health and the short term benefits are pleasure.

      For animals in the wild, pleasurable short term benefits are usually also healthy things that would benefit them in the long term, eg. eating sugary food. A small amount of naturally occurring sugary food (eg. fruits) would be beneficial for animals and they'd never usually have the risk of eating too much of it, so it would be advantageous for them to crave it so that they'll definitely eat it whenever they have the opportunity. So because of that, if they were given an unlimited amount of it, then it would be natural for them to eat so much of it that it would be very unhealthy.

      Humans have an unlimited amount of sugary food, however we're unique in that we're aware that eating too much of it is unhealthy. So we choose not to eat it because it would be beneficial to us in the long term. But because animals are unaware and more guided by their instincts, it would be unnatural for them to choose not to eat it if they had the choice. But then people who eat sugary food despite knowing that it's unhealthy are still doing it because it's beneficial, it's just that they're choosing the short term pleasure benefits over the long term health benefits. Same thing for the screens, people are choosing the short term pleasure benefits over the long term health benefits.

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      • LloydAsher

        If anything probably we would advance to to have a shorter digestive track. Since we eat more crap than ever we really dont need to take in all the nutrients from out food.

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      • Doesnormalmatter

        I mean the whole short term vs long term thing makes sense. But we have trade offs there that we never would have had in nature. In the end tho, whether or not your theory is right totally depends on what natural means.

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        • JellyBeanBandit

          Yeah, it could be wrong or at least would need to be modified to be correct. Plus either way I'm sure others would've already come up with this idea long before me. Still though this kind of stuff is fun to think about.

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    • LloydAsher

      Some people in the scientific community think that somehow the human body will evolve into a horribly disfigured body in a 1000 years or so due to technology. I dont think this is the case, it's too soon of a time to have that massive of a change in biology. What people fail to realize is that humans by and large have remained the same level of intellect for the last few thousands of years it's just that learning institutions have become more prevalent. The problem with technology is the simple fact no matter what ailment you may have technolgy can fix it to some degree. This in later generations lead to more mutations that would straight up kill us more than a hundred years ago. Humans of the future will likely look like humans of today and the past. Though the possibility on only having one race in the future is optimistic about the human condition at best... or the worst form of pessimism.

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      • Doesnormalmatter

        Yeah its weird to think about it like that. We are interfering with natural selection.

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        • LloydAsher

          Eugenics wasnt far from the unfortunate truth. Eugenics would go further if it was done slowly over time rather than wholesale genocide.

          Such as maybe just sterilizing the very mentally ill (snip snip).

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          • Doesnormalmatter

            Nahh dude we should not to that. Its not fair if people want to have kids. I think they deserve that right.

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  • Wellyoudliketoknoweh

    We are still, i don’t know if we will forever but for the time now and next hundreds of years I agree with ur point

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  • mauzi

    Yep, everything humans have done is "natural", not even being sarcastic when I say things like pollution and everything humans have destroyed is also "natural". we are animals that formed on this earth after all, and are using it in whatever way the complex brain compels us. Don't get why people seem to forget that part when they jump on the "I hate humanity" bandwagon. We may be an "invasive species" of the worst kind, but still just as natural as everything else on this earth.

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    • LloydAsher

      Humans: we don't adapt to the environment we adapt the environment for us.

      So pretty much humans are the Russia of the natural order of adaption.

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    • McBean

      Righto, duft, my man. I am not going to stop driving my car to reduce greenhouse gas, because I know you won't stop driving either. That's the "natural" condition of human assholeism. 600 years from now, this planet is going to be cooked. Stratospheric reflection with SO₂ is only a band aid remedy. Assholeism will triumph over all else. The world will be fucked.

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      • mauzi

        Personally I try to be as eco friendly as possible. I would prefer a life where I never had to drive again, and it's something I am working towards. but I don't think it's realistic to expect others to shun that and other forms of technology in any way that will miraculously reverse the damage it's done. It's a personal responsibility, & no use trying to manage everyone else's when they couldn't care less.

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        • McBean

          Sounds very natural.

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