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Nobody is owed basic human needs, respect, or compassion, and nobody is obligated to give you those things. To say that everyone is owed anything and you should be just given those things just because you're a human is absolutely bullshit. You might be a human, but that does not suddenly mean you deserve to be given any of the things mentioned, especially if you didn't even work for it!
If a person is receiving welfare for a long time then it's only right that they do something back. Maybe volunteer or actively seek jobs
"You don't deserve basic human needs just because you are a human." ... I'm not even going to bother explaining how stupid this is, but I hope you realize it in time.
I'm a human supremacist and I agree with the OP. Being there doesnt justify you for taking another persons labor.
What you are entitled by the merit of being human is equality under the law, free speech and the right to self defense. All of them being natural rights, requiring zero input from a goverment, more of a how the goverment cant control you.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, at least in the United States. One of my direct ancestors John Hart has his signature on that! And those things you listed do require input from the government. "Equality under the law" is government, "law" is government.
But like I said before, how do children and the disabled fit into this? Even OP said they don't. Civilization is built on humanity being reliant on one another and there will always be inequalities with how much labor you have taken vs. how much you have given. Unless you have built your home and sourced all the pieces of it, have built your computer and cell phone and molded all the little plastic and metal pieces that put it together for it to be functional, sew all your own clothing that you source fully from nature and not other's labor, and you fully hunt and gather or farm your own food, you are greatly in a power-imbalance regarding your labor.
The only human beings that probably aren't are the ones who still live off of the land or in huts, and they STILL rely on each other.
You kind of don't. Like people that would rather be lazy and not actually find a job. Are they really owed basic human needs?
I have a 38 year old cousin with Down Syndrome who was considered "not productive" in a work program because of his level of functioning. So instead he goes to a day program which is more like a school.
Does he not deserve basic human needs? What do we do with all the severely disabled human beings who cannot work?
Before humans were able to communicate the way we can now, we still would take care of disabled people. When they couldn't fend for themselves we'd feed them and make sure they survive. It is quite literally in our blood to take care of others if they can't do it themselves, and the fact that OP doesn't understand that is bewildering. I'm glad most people in this world aren't quite as stupid.
I think OP is talking about genuinely capable people not finding a job and mooching off others.
But that collapses his entire narrative. Then *some* people are owed basic human needs.
I personally preferred when the homeless in my area had a place to shower and use the bathroom before that was taken away, now my town is foul. A lot of them are severely mentally ill or disabled. That's one issue with not giving humans basic human rights, it will eventually bother other humans and become their problem. A fed and showered person is more pleasant to be around then a hungry unwashed person.
First of all, I never even said anything about disabled people.
It really does take one to know one, doesn't it?
I remember reading about two different ancient people, back before civilization when we still lived as "cavemen". If I recall correctly, one man was very physically disabled, and was carried around by his group. I think he may have been injured at some point in his life and they found another purpose for him in their group, like a shaman. There was another individual in another group, a girl, who was mentally handicapped. Her teeth were rotted from eating a sweet fruit fed to her by her clan to keep her happy.
So yes, the mentality, "No one owes you anything" is fundamentally flawed. It goes against human nature, and I would argue nature in general. I think nature gives a little bit, even if it does not seem to.
This. This right here, my thoughts exactly. If you’re going to work a shit job and not do anything to better yourself but take advantage of others - yeah you don’t deserve shit. you deserve whatever you’re half ass working with.
I really wish your kind was removed
We are brought into this world indebted to those around us, greed and hyper-individualism is a character flaw and should be stomped out
Ah like how it worked out all so well with the Soviets.
Motivation to get rewarded should be based on how hard you work. No one likes royalty or trust fund kids but part of the motivation to work hard is so that your kids wont have to.
Dont want to starve? Get to work. Capitalism isnt fair. But it's the most fair you are going to get.
Yes. It did work incredibly well, that’s why those who lived through it want to go back to it.
The reward is in bettering your nation and bringing your neighbors forward with you, and they will return the favor.
The Soviets brought incredible innovation and successes into this world without the obsession of wealth. Cuba continues to make insane medical breakthroughs without obsession of wealth.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - all you can ever ask of someone is their best, I believe those who prove their dedication and work ethic should live comfortably and happily.
Capitalism has done absolutely nothing to secure that hard work = good pay. Monopolies, corruption, and greed, have been allowed to destroy Merit-based success under this obsession of market freedom.
Great to know that! I also wish the same for you!😁 People like you that think everyone needs to think like you do nothing but make this earth worse. Did you know that's also a character flaw?
By the way, there is nothing wrong with wanting more of something or focusing on yourself. You are also not obligated to make other people your main focus, or priority. Have a nice day!
You’re advocating for the right of people to treat eachother worse and you think I’m what’s wrong with society ? Lmfao
I wasn't advocating for anything. I'm just saying that just because you're a person does not mean that people are obligated to give you respect or compassion, because really, nobody needs to give you anything if they don't want to. I'm a human too. Judging by your response to me, it seems like you don't think I'm owed compassion.
Yes, I do. Next.
I agree with you on the need part because that means you essentially have to force someone else to work for you. However, I disagree with your part about how humans treat each other. Compassion for instance, if someone doesn't give compassion to someone else in a really dark place then they're just an arsehole.
Demanding free shit from other people is a form of slavery. F'k the greedy vermin that go through life leeching off others. I'm short and ugly. Pay me.
This makes me think of those who claim they “don’t need help” but are pressed and on welfare but aren’t doing anything for themselves. Like better yourself just a little or contribute SOMEHOW. Living off the system and the people around you but always making the excuse of “oh I can’t do this because a,b, and c” - cool GET UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. And stop blaming everyone else and the world/government for your own issues.
"you didn't WORK for it!"
people who say things like this usually don't think of wealthy people who do useless jobs that they got through connections and being shot out of the right set of testicles as being the group that maybe doesn't deserve half the shit they've got. It's always the homeless and the actual workers who make the product or provide the service that either don't deserve shit or "haven't worked for it."
Incorrect, I have basic human needs like love, support, money and food, I earned it through living in a septic tank for a million billion years, breathing through my gills, I didn't eat, I shoved a probe up my arse and that's how I lived, I was happy as a weird space fish from planet X. Lol.
If you were a disabled person, so mentally disabled your mental capacity would never be past that of a young child but you had the body of an adult, are you worthy of starvation and suffering because of that condition that is out of your control?
I don't think humans give ourselves enough credit and want to see ourselves as more cruel than we are. Oh by golly, we can be exceptionally cruel. All animals can be. I'm definitely not ignorant to that. But we're animals that are dependent on the bonds we have formed with each other, even with the members who cannot necessarily "give" an equal share of what they "take".
I take the approach I give respect until an individual gives me a reason for them to lose it. OP takes the opposite approach, and I feel like that will just make you start at a negative footing with everyone. Then again, he comes off as a negative person who stated he just wants people to leave him alone, or at least I think I recall that. There's been a lot of comments.
Is the disabled person's life dependent on this? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes I think people should ensure the survival of others. The point I'm trying to get at is I think caring for each other is so naturally engrained into us it's genetic, and to not take care of one another, even those who cannot "work" and give their "equal" share back, goes against human nature and there's countless evidence we've taken care of our disabled members because that's part of who we are. The mentality of "I don't want to have to work to feed this disabled person because it's slavery" is bizarre to me and I've never heard it described like that.
Yes, society needs to make sure the disabled who cannot feed themselves are fed. Callousness towards the less fortunate is not a virtue.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/11/04/Cavemen-took-care-of-physically-disabled/1924563000400/
I think it's always been part of our nature to take care of each other.
Am I the disabled person in this analogy? I would grow or hunt for the food for the disabled person. It would also depend on the empathy of the other individual. There's also evidence of humans caring for disabled individuals back to "caveman" times even if it was to their detriment, like carrying members of their clans who couldn't walk around.
That's why I also mentioned adults with severe disabilities, like my cousin with Down Syndrome who cannot work. Yes, I still think he is entitled to these things without "payment", but OP actually said it's "too bad" for disabled adults, implying he would leave my cousin to fend for himself, which I find to be exceptionally cruel.
Yes, I still think all humans deserve food, shelter, and compassion. I think the world would be a better place if we treated each other with kindness instead of bitterness and treating others as if they are worth nothing. I don't think that's the correct attitude. I think lifeforms *DO* have worth for the mere fact of being alive and having to go through this world, and I'm going to respect them for that reason alone.
I've had people treat me like I was nothing, and I've had people treat me with love. I prefer the latter. When I treat people with love and respect and open my heart to them, better things happen than if I am bitter and take the mentality that I don't owe them anything.
I still don't think OP is correct. There's too many issues with such a sweeping generalization and it falls apart easily once you really think about it. Civilization would fall apart if we all had the mentality "I don't owe you anything!" A human infant is helpless the moment it is born, and it is hardwired into our evolution to take care of the child. Likewise, it is hardwired into us to take care of each other and there is evidence of ancient people, before civilization, caring for their disabled members of their clans even if it caused them more issues.
Human nature is not all hatred, and anger, and warfare. It's also love, and empathy, and caring for one another. Society is heavily reliant on us relying on each other and many jobs are based on that. You are literate because of a teacher, you are alive because of a healthcare, you can drive on roads because of people who built them, you eat food most likely not grown or hunted by you and bought in a grocery store. You're in a home and using a computer made with parts most likely made by other people.
We're all dependent on each other, we're all in this together. We're all owed basic human compassion, empathy, and decency for the mere fact of being alive. No one chooses to be born. It's depressing people don't believe humans don't deserve basic human needs when there's children starving to death in so many places.
"I still don't think OP is correct. There's too many issues with such a sweeping generalization and it falls apart easily once you really think about it. Civilization would fall apart if we all had the mentality "I don't owe you anything!" A human infant is helpless the moment it is born, and it is hardwired into our evolution to take care of the child. Likewise, it is hardwired into us to take care of each other and there is evidence of ancient people, before civilization, caring for their disabled members of their clans even if it caused them more issues."
Because I don't. I don't owe you a damn thing just because you're a person. I'm a person too. You're not unique.
"Human nature is not all hatred, and anger, and warfare. It's also love, and empathy, and caring for one another. Society is heavily reliant on us relying on each other and many jobs are based on that. You are literate because of a teacher, you are alive because of a healthcare, you can drive on roads because of people who built them, you eat food most likely not grown or hunted by you and bought in a grocery store. You're in a home and using a computer made with parts most likely made by other people."
That's just not true.
"We're all dependent on each other, we're all in this together. We're all owed basic human compassion, empathy, and decency for the mere fact of being alive. No one chooses to be born. It's depressing people don't believe humans don't deserve basic human needs when there's children starving to death in so many places."
Yeah, no we're not. If I didn't say this before, I'm going to say it now. I am NOT going to give people compassion, empathy, or decency because they're a human, especially if they don't even deserve it. It's not an obligation. I don't owe anyone anything.
Okay but you actually have to argue against what I am saying. When you're presented with something that doesn't go with your POV you just say "That's not true" and then don't say anything. How is that not true? Did you sew your own clothing, or did you buy it? Did you build the home you live in, or do you rent or buy it? Did you hunt or gather the food you eat, or did you buy it in a grocery store? Have you never been to a doctor? Did you completely make your computer yourself, down to molding the parts? Humans completely rely on each other and that was how civilization came to be, bands of humans relying on each other. When you get down to the fundamentals of that it's basic human bonds based on compassion and respect and caring for one another.
You also don't know what a person has gone through. There's homeless veterans. Are they undeserving of respect? Your way of thinking is just filled with holes.
Maybe if you showed people respect you would get more respect in return. That has been my experience. Negativity begets negativity, and I just really don't understand what you get out of treating others with no respect or kindness.
"Okay but you actually have to argue against what I am saying. When you're presented with something that doesn't go with your POV you just say "That's not true" and then don't say anything. How is that not true? Did you sew your own clothing, or did you buy it? Did you build the home you live in, or do you rent or buy it? Did you hunt or gather the food you eat, or did you buy it in a grocery store? Have you never been to a doctor? Did you completely make your computer yourself, down to molding the parts? Humans completely rely on each other and that was how civilization came to be, bands of humans relying on each other. When you get down to the fundamentals of that it's basic human bonds based on compassion and respect and caring for one another."
Okay, maybe you're right. But I'm only dependent on the people that give me the things I need, and I'm only dependent on them for that reason. They're only needed for that reason. Otherwise, I don't need anyone, and I do not depend on you if you're not the reason I have a house, have food in the fridge, my doctor, have clothes, etc. And this was not because of compassion, respect, and wanting to be caring. That's BS. These people had a job they were doing.
"You also don't know what a person has gone through. There's homeless veterans. Are they undeserving of respect? Your way of thinking is just filled with holes."
Well, nobody is obligated to give them respect, and they certainly are not owed respect just because they're homeless.
"Maybe if you showed people respect you would get more respect in return. That has been my experience. Negativity begets negativity, and I just really don't understand what you get out of treating others with no respect or kindness."
If you've done nothing to deserve for my respect and kindness, then you're not going to get it. Simple.
Why choose to be an unkind person?
Do you wish people to be unkind and disrespectful to you until you reach a level of respect in their eyes?
That's another issue. Everyone has a different view of what a "respectable" human being is. If you only treat humans with kindness once they "deserve" it, they may never deserve it because that's ambiguous.
I also said "homeless veterans". Do you know what a veteran is?
Also, all those jobs exist *because* humans care for each other enough to keep civilization going. They have jobs, but *why* does someone choose to be a doctor? *Why* does someone choose to be a teacher? Or nursing? Or jobs that are incredibly stressful with seemingly no reward, like a veterinarian where you have to put down most of your patients and are constantly yelled at by their owners for not healing them for free? Why do humans even keep these other little animals as our buddies? Human empathy and a need to attach runs deep.
For civilization to exist, we need to have basic respect for our fellow man. Otherwise, you are right, we really aren't trying our best.
"Do you wish people to be unkind and disrespectful to you until you reach a level of respect in their eyes?".
No, I wish to be left alone.
"I also said "homeless veterans". Do you know what a veteran is?".
Yes, I sure do.
"Also, all those jobs exist *because* humans care for each other enough to keep civilization going. They have jobs, but *why* does someone choose to be a doctor? *Why* does someone choose to be a teacher? Or nursing? Or jobs that are incredibly stressful with seemingly no reward, like a veterinarian where you have to put down most of your patients and are constantly yelled at by their owners for not healing them for free? Why do humans even keep these other little animals as our buddies? Human empathy and a need to attach runs deep."
Easy. Doctor's get paid a lot of money and a lot of people are interested in the human anatomy. People become teachers because that is simply what they are interested in. Veterinarians choose that job because they like working with animals. Human keep their pets to have company. This has nothing to do with empathy.
"For civilization to exist, we need to have basic respect for our fellow man. Otherwise, you are right, we really aren't trying our best."
Again, not an obligation.
No one chooses to be born into this world.
Everyone deserves basic human decency. We just don't leave babies to fend for themselves the moment they are born. Every child deserves food, shelter, love, and medical care. Every human being does. And if every human had this mentality, the world would be a much more sanitary place.
After the homeless services were depleted in my area, it has become disgusting. They used to have a place to shower and use the bathroom, now it is drastically reduced and it becomes a public health hazard. We lost an entire homeless shelter to luxury condos and now we have an entire homeless encampment in a park with no place for them to use the bathroom because "they don't deserve it." So they have to go in the park. This is human waste, it is toxic. A majority of them are severely mentally ill, disabled, on heavy duty drugs, or all of the above. And they can't get help, despite living in the "welfare state" of California.
Extend a helping hand to another human being in need. Empathy is a virtue, not a weakness.
"No one chooses to be born into this world.
Everyone deserves basic human decency. We just don't leave babies to fend for themselves the moment they are born. Every child deserves food, shelter, love, and medical care. Every human being does. And if every human had this mentality, the world would be a much more sanitary place."
No, not everyone "deserves basic human decency" and I know too many people that prove my point. Again, you might be a human, but does not mean you deserve decency.
After the homeless services were depleted in my area, it has become disgusting. They used to have a place to shower and use the bathroom, now it is drastically reduced and it becomes a public health hazard. We lost an entire homeless shelter to luxury condos and now we have an entire homeless encampment in a park with no place for them to use the bathroom because "they don't deserve it." So they have to go in the park. This is human waste, it is toxic. A majority of them are severely mentally ill, disabled, on heavy duty drugs, or all of the above. And they can't get help, despite living in the "welfare state" of California."
The ones on heavy duty drugs deserve the situation. Ever heard of the phrase "You've made your bed, now lie in it"? It is because of their choice to do drugs that got them to where they are at in the first place.
"Extend a helping hand to another human being in need. Empathy is a virtue, not a weakness."
I will when it has been earned.
disagreeing. People ARE owed the basic needs for survival. Even though my intelligence and society tell me different, my feelings tell me that people owe me EVERYTHING. I wish I was THE king and owned everyone and everything.
Sounds like sarcasm.
However, if it isn't, no they aren't. For example, The lazy homeless people that find it so hard to get up off their ass and at least try to get a job, but yet expect everyone to have sympathy for them. Are they owed basic needs for survival? No, I don't think so. They are not even putting in an effort to get basic needs at that point, so are they even trying to survive?
You might feel like people owe you everything, but just because you feel a certain way doesn't make it true. In reality, nobody needs to give you anything.
Again, this is only if you are actually being serious because I suspect that your comment is meant to be sarcastic.
I'm a human supremacist does that mean I think every human deserves a full stomach? Not really, if they work for it sure as shit they do.
Food isnt a right, nor is healthcare, nor is warmth. That's why I take extra appreciation for charitable organizations. Doing good for goodness sake. Goverments who do this isnt because of an innate feel good sensation. Keeping your citizens fed is how you dont have an uprising. Or to gain leverage of another country.
That's the difference between choosing to donate and forcing people to pay taxes. One comes from the heart the other from the brain.
I dont think you the OP are inherently wrong. Just that other people take blatant natural truths like this as being cold or inhumane.
"Food isnt a right, nor is healthcare, nor is warmth. That's why I take extra appreciation for charitable organizations. Doing good for goodness sake. Goverments who do this isnt because of an innate feel good sensation. Keeping your citizens fed is how you dont have an uprising. Or to gain leverage of another country."
Yes, exactly. Whether people want to accept it or not, at the end of the day, these things are privileges.
"I dont think you the OP are inherently wrong. Just that other people take blatant natural truths like this as being cold or inhumane."
Well, people seem to have always had a hard time accepting the truth. Sure, the truth can be harsh, but it's still the truth. I really think people need to learn how to get over it.