To the swedish guy who doesn't care about ukraine:

I think it's the people of Ukraine's choice of how they want their government run, not Vladimir Putin's.

It's like telling a woman (who can't stand you)she is your girlfriend, raping her, then telling her she'll learn to love you because you know what's best for her. You're a couple whether she likes it or not.

It's insanity.

It's pretty damn obvious that Putin does not consider NATO a joke.

And, yeah, I'm sure the Ukrainians are all feeling very safe today.

Ukraine does indeed have a problem with corruption, but do you honestly believe that Russia has many positive lessons to teach anyone on that point?

I fully accept that ordinary Russians aren't maniacs; you, for example, have always struck me as a fundamentally decent, rational person. However, have you had a close look at your tsar recently?

The general consensus amongst foreign leaders who have had contact with Putin over the years was that he was a fundamentally rational person, although his goals and means to achieve them could be highly dubious by the standards of modern liberal democracies.

But something has gone very wrong with the dude. Maybe it's a demonstration of the cliché about power corrupting, and absolute power corrupting absolutely. Maybe it's the fact that, after more than two decades in power, Putin has come to believe that he knows everything and can do no wrong (remind you of another recently ex-national leader?). Maybe Covid-nuttiness has wormed it's way into his brain like it has for many others. What else explains his bizarre habit of keeping a five metre long desk between him and visiting statesmen? What else explains him toasting official visitors from twenty metres away? What else explains the bizarre videoed cabinet meeting (or was it an interrogation?) held in a vast rotunda of the Kremlin?

Or maybe he's just been sucked down the rabbit hole of Russian nationalism, he's lost in the delusion that the USSR was the pinnacle of human achievement, and he's determined that he'll be remembered in the history books as the leader who restored Russia to true greatness. By which he actually means that other countries will fear Russia rather than dismissing it a has-been state run by grasping politicians who always bow to the tsar and oligarchs who happily screw ordinary Russians over for their personal benefit.

As I say, you've always seemed to me to be a reasonable sort of guy and I'm certain that you're pretty bright. I find it very sad that you seem to be happy to swallow the official Putin line without any serious question.

I want to start this off by saying I do not hate Russia. I hate the Russian government. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine many western people feel the same.

We believe the Russian people to be equally as sensible as other nations; which isn't very sensible. All citizens of the world have the ability to be blinded by the desires of their government. This includes people from any country. Not just one.

The issue most western people have with what Russia is currently doing is not related to NATO. Most of us agree that NATO should be willing to help Ukraine if they got them into this mess. We also recognize that our governments are acting (understandly) out of fear of mutually assured destruction.

Our issue with what is going on is that your war that Putin and several of your people deem "necessary" is an act of senseless violence against the innocent people of the country. What you deem tough-love is what we deem unacceptable behavior. The attacks and murder you're committing can be best compared to when my country invaded the middle east. Terrorism masquerading as necessity.

I am well aware of The United States's history of invasion. My opinion of those invasions is the exact same as yours. That it is a disgusting act of greed and self righteous justice. Going to war knowing that no other nation can block your actions is wrong. Purposely using the threat of nukes to deter world leaders that might have stepped in is worse. Particularly when you're far larger and more powerful than the nation you invaded and Putin clains it is for "protection".

Ask the civilian population of Ukraine if they feel protected by anyone.

The world is long past the need for petty wars to be established by or against the world super powers. China, the United States, and Russia already have more than enough people. More than enough land. More than enough power. All 3 of our countries are run by people disguising themselves as better than the rest of the world.

I do agree that we should stop demonizing the PEOPLE of these nations and start focusing on the issues we truly have with them. But saying that Ukraine is being treated mercifully when the innocents are being punished for the potential sins of their leaders is questionable at best.

Regardless, Putin's actions are the only thing to unite most nations around the world as being immoral in several years. Even governments that are currently keeping a neutral position are asking for the violence to stop.

Most common people don't want Russia to fall. We want peace. Putin has decided that wasn't an option and as such as drawn our ire.

How the fuck does this have -9 comments on the front page

Edit: The comments I were responding to have been deleted.

I have several points to make. I also want to say that I'm personally not bothered by you specifically. You have the right to speak your mind and while I might disagree, you have your reasoning for believing what you do.

Honestly, I personally appreciate the outlook from a Russian. It allows for a perspective that our media isn't projecting. Please take the time to read the entirety of each point before jumping to a conclusion. I acknowledge your concerns.

1. Death and War

A single death would be one too many. Even injuring a member of the civilian population is taking things too far. You expect Ukrainians to lay down their weapons and let you take their land, destroy their government...but come in with bombs and military grade equipment. The death and destruction is far too grim for many people to ignore.

2. War, Specifically The United States

I acknowledged this in my previous comment but will ellaborate more.

This is a topic I unfortunately have to agree with you on, but only partially. Our most recent war in the middle east is incredibly polarizing amongst our people. When 9/11 happened, it united the nation. I was a mere 3 months old and grew up seeing the war play out.

Do you want to know how many young people I've met in my life that supported the war after Osama Bin Laden was killed? 0. Do you want to know how many people I willingly associate with that support the civilian casualties? 0.

Only the most politically extreme people in our country supported the prolonging of it. Well, the political extremists and the rich that were profiting off of it. That war should have ended long ago. I ended contact with my father, amongst many reasons, for regularly saying that he supported the war.

The United States isn't innocent, but neither is Russia in the attack. I even acknowledged that I thought our wars were "disgusting acts of greed and self righteous justice". I promise you that if I live to see another war, I will either be protesting it or imprisoned for doing so.

3. Russian and Asian Representation in The West

Western society, for the most part, is no longer okay with the bullying of another's culture. When someone makes a joke about a person's race or culture, it is usually called out immediately. Most young people seek to separate ourselves from these awful opinions and stereotypes.

I do, however, acknowledge that the 30+ population are likely demonizing you and other Asian countries. I've seen it first hand. My girlfriend and her family are Indian immigrants. I see her struggle with being stereotyped by older people on a regular basis. We see her culture consistently mocked in western media. We hate it and before my cancer diagnosis we were regularly protesting, boycotting, and seeking to help normalize different cultures.

Things are getting better, though. Games no longer rely on the "Better dead than red." philosophy. Nearly every major game since 2016 has focused on other plots. Fortnite, Among Us, Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War, Elden Ring, Red Dead Redemption, Ghost of Tsushima, Far Cry 5...The list is ever expansive of titles that do not rely on the teachings of the 1960s.I do, however, seek to acknowledge 3 exceptions to the rule. Overwatch, Call of Duty, and Spider-Man PS4.

Call of Duty is a franchise that desperately needs to either adapt or die off. The entire franchise profits off of wars and the misrepresentation of people. It's American nationalist propaganda.

Overwatch, while mostly progressive with its international diversity, portrays Russia as corrupt. The Russian hero, Zarya, is a walking stereotype. This is bad.

Spider-Man PS4 uses a Russian supervillain, Rhino, and an Asian terrorist, Martin Li. Martin Li is by all accounts a racist portrayal of the Asian culture. Rhino, on the otherhand, is one of my favorite fictional characters. Not because he's an evil Russian, but because they write him as more than that.

I hope it's apparent that, at least from American media, the number of "Russia Is Bad" propaganda films has lowered. If it's different in Europe, I do apologize but I'm unaware. (Although I do imagine the number of American propaganda films will rise due to the Ukraine situation unfortunately.)

4. Care: Government Versus The General Public

It is unfortunate that our world leaders do not actually seem to care. I personally am not pretending to care, but obviously I can not speak for everyone. I wish that Biden would do more, but it's readily apparent that he and other politicians are pretending to care. I imagine the levels of care vary amongst people. That's to be expected. There are even people that openly support Russia in this decision.

We've told our government that we do not believe sanctions are enough. They aren't listening. If our politicians were genuinely concerned, oil would no longer be purchased. The SWIFT decision would have already been made. They would have started to recruit soldiers.

This brings me to a linked point...

5. "Where are you then?" (A quote from your response to Boojum.)

You are aware that westerners are asking for troops to be deployed, correct? That there are hundreds of people across websites that are asking if they can join the Ukrainian armed forces? People want to do something. We want to go help. We can't. No options are being provided to those who want to.

All over the internet people from around the world are asking how they can join the Ukrainian defense. There are plenty of keyboard warriors but many who seek to follow their morals.

Even if we were suddenly given a clear path to provide the assistance, how many people can afford to help? Some are too poor to travel. Some are too busy with their children. Others, like myself, are too sick.

Seriously, what are poor people in The United States, Japan, Australia, Canada, or other non-European countries supposed to do if they want to provide themselves to Ukraine? They can't afford a plane ticket. They likely don't even have a passport.

If I was able to travel to Ukraine and fight for them I would. Would this benefit me? My country? No. In fact it would almost certainly result in my death. Unfortunately I'm being treated for cancer and have become an amputee.

I'm hoping that a clear path to volunteer defenses are opened but until then the most we can do is donate to Ukraine or voice our disapproval with Putin.

6. Closing Points

Something people need to get better with is recognizing that disagreeing with the governmental decisions of another country does not mean you are demonizing the country itself. We're voicing our concerns with a fucking war. A war in which a world super power is attacking a small nation.

The west criticizes the US for prolonging war in the middle east all the time. If we had struck first, we likely would have been criticized just as much as Putin is today.

I do feel sympathy for the genuine demonization that happens. I'm sure that it happens fairly often just as it happens to us. Keep in mind that western politics is fairly divided compared to that in Russia.

When I say I dislike your government, I specifically mean the individuals within the government. Yes, your government is run by Russians. That's a fact. However I would dislike the decision to invade Ukraine regardless of which nation did so. Putin just so happens to be the figure behind the decision in this case.

If Joe Biden had declared we were going to attack Cuba, I would be voicing these very same opinions. Look at my previous posts and comments and you'll see me criticizing my own government fairly often.

I mean, even if Emanuel Macron had invaded Switzerland, I would be upset.

Prioritizing your home and your people is an honorable cause. It's common moral ground that many people have and it's not even necessarilya bad one. It's one I disagree with, as I find even American nationalism a bad thing. It is a good moral though.

If you actually want to speak, and I recognize that you are, I'm willing to listen. I believe that everyone should be willing to say their opinion. I can't say that I'll necessarily aggree but I will listen.

I sincerely hope you don't think I think you're brainwashed. I think you're no more brainwashed than WeirdGuy, Litelander, or LloydAsher, all of whom I regularly disagree with but think highly of regardless for speaking up for what they believe in. Do I believe they're brainwashed? Of course not. And neither do I belive you are.

I respect you for speaking your thoughts and hope you continue to do so. I may disagree, and in this case I very much do, but I still think you deserve to have your own thoughts.

Of course they're anti Russian. Russia is a shithole with a maniac for a leader.

Declaring war on Ukraine and blowing shit up is not mercy. It's massacre and you're insane if you think that's normal and good.

Russians are moronic and brainwashed. Yes I do think that. You're a fine example.

There are still Italians who have pictures of Mussolini on their walls and believe that fascist Italy was a wonderful period of Italian history. There's still - God help us - a significant minority of the British public who believe Johnson is a wonderful Prime Minister in spite of the heaps of evidence that he's an incompetent, self-serving fool. From what I've read, there are still quite a few Russians who idolise Stalin, in spite of copious amounts of proof that he was a vicious thug who killed millions of the people he governed and his paranoia about the officer corps very nearly resulted in the USSR losing to Nazi Germany. There are still millions of Americans who truly believe that Trump is a wonderful person and he was the greatest US president ever.

So what Russian grannies choose to put on their fridges says precisely nothing useful about Putin other than that he has a very effective PR machine, and that many Russians desperately need to believe that their leader is a fantastic guy.

You speak in praise of nationalism. I was born and grew up in what has to be one of the most strongly nationalistic countries in the world - the USA. Since I left the States, I've seen and experienced the results of Scottish, English, Welsh and Italian nationalism. I've also visited vast cemeteries in France and various places in Germany where the remains of the logical endpoint of nationalism can be seen.

Whatever national costume or badges it wears and whatever flags it waves, nationalism always sucks. It's always a negative force and it's always ultimately destructive. It's always about ego and primitive tribalism. It's always one of the first cards played by an autocratic politician who wants to manipulate the masses for his own ends. Most of the time, it's used to get people to pay less attention to the crap that's actually going on in their lives due to inept or actually wicked government, and make them instead focus on how they can play a part in making their tribe greater by kicking the shit out of some other tribe.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of what one's own country has achieved, even though that's usually nonsensical. For example, you may well feel a sense of pride at the role the USSR played in WWII, but I seriously doubt if you personally took part in the Great Patriotic War.

But there's huge difference between national pride and nationalism. The latter is all about othering those who don't belong to your tribe. It's about being willing to impose your will on other countries simply because it is your will or because you'll gain something tangible from conquering them. It's about the delusion that your nation is "better" than any other country in the world in every possible way, and that gives you and your fellow citizens the right - or even the duty - to take whatever you feel like taking from other countries, and give a good kicking to anyone who dares to cause you even the most trivial problems.

If everyone applied similar rules in their personal lives, society would rapidly collapse into violent anarchy. The same applies at the nation-state level.

Its a complicated situation because Putin is proving the need for nato. On the other hand according to Russia the US promised Russia Nato would not move east (the US denies this happened). But if you look at a map of when that promise was supposedly made it has definitely moved east.

The US would not like it either if Russia put troops in Cuba.

I don't think either Finland or Sweden is concerned about what Putin thinks about them at this point.

Finland government leaders did make a comment several weeks ago that the would likely join NATO if Russia invaded Ukraine.

Putin cannot say he was not warned about that.

Sweden is in a bit of a different situation... and I cannot predict how they are actually going to react.