Ukraine invasion: thoughts after 3 days

Its now been 3 full days (72+Hours) since Russia Invaded Ukraine....

So far Russia has yet to take control of a single Ukrainian City. The US Pentagon briefing as of about 7 hours ago said that the Russian Air-force had not yet achieved control of Ukrainian Airspace (and the the Ukraine Air-force and Anti-Aircraft Missile systems remained active over much of Ukraine (and had shot down a number of Russian Aircraft).

Russia had a specific target of taking control of Kiev. While they initially encircled the city, the Ukrainian military has broken that.

In addition, there are multiple reports of the Russian Tanks, armored vehicles, and trucks running out of fuel.

There are multiple independent videos of entire columns of Russian tanks, armored vehicles, and trucks destroyed by portable missiles.

At this point its clear that the Russian Military is at least embarrassed by the situation. They had planned to take Kiev in about 1 day.

They have met far more resistance than they anticipated, and did not bring extra supplies in case their planned "cake walk" takeover did not work (why they are running out of fuel).

The Ukrainian military is in full control of much of Western Ukraine, and western cargo aircraft are now landing with resupply of shoulder launched missiles, general ammo, food (MRE's), protective gear, etc. While it will take several days for those items to get to the eastern front lines via truck... it appears that Russia cannot stop that from happening.

Russia may still pull out an initial occupation. But, if Kiev can hold out a few more days I predict that they will never be able to take Kiev.

It's now very clear that virtually every remaining man, woman, and child is willing to fight the Russian troops (the ones not willing have fled).

Since the West will continue to supply portable missles that can take out all kinds of vehicles (including tanks) and low flying aircraft... I think that the Ukrainian people will drive Russia out like Afghanistan did within a year - and it could only be a month or two.

What are your thoughts on this issue:

olderdude-xx

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Comments ( 59 )
  • YE

    Two things I've found interesting about the invasion so far:

    #1. How the Ukrainian locals have "cleverly" switched direction signs at key road points to confuse the invading Russian forces, with an introduced sign reading "GOOD LUCK".

    #2. Seeing Ukrainian women volunteering to make Molotov cocktails.

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    • olderdude-xx

      There's more to it than that. My wife is Ukrainian (Easter Ukraine) and tells me that for decades that Russians have always said "We're going into the ground in Ukraine" instead of saying "We're traveling in Ukraine", and that trying to correct the Russians over the decades have not changed a thing.

      So now some of the Ukrainians making Molotov cocktails are running adds in Russia to "Come into the ground in Ukraine - Free Cocktails."

      As LloydAsher said yesterday:.. Some Ukrainians have more to give to the Russians than just sunflower seeds.

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      • YE

        "Come into the ground in Ukraine - Free Cocktails." πŸ˜ƒ

        Dark times for the Ukrainian people calling for dark humor.

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    • LloydAsher

      Those arent ordinary molotov cocktails. A normal molotov is just gas in a bottle. Causes a flash of fire and if something was made of flammable material itll be set on fire.

      They are adding styrofoam into the mix. That will give the molotov more of a napalm quality of sticking to things (and people) while burning. That's way more useful

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      • YE

        From the look of things, Ukraine is now a Molotov cocktails superpower.

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        • MonteMetcalfe

          And it's Happy Hour.

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          • YE

            Cheers!

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        • LloydAsher

          First was finland and now Ukraine

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          • YE

            With the rate at which resentment among Belarusians is brewing against Lukashenko, I won't be surprised if the next one is Belarus.

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  • Boojum

    There's an old saying that truth is always the first casualty of war. That's definitely the case here. I doubt if anyone - including the upper echelons of the Russian and Ukrainian governments - fully understands the situation on the ground in a country that's about twice the size of Texas (and about 10% larger than France). Even if they were to have a perfect grasp of what's happening, what they'd be saying publicly would be at least shaded to gain them something in the domestic and international information sphere if not outright lies.

    As is always the case these days, there are videos appearing on the internet which claim to depict little snippets of what's happening. But as is also always the case, there's a lot of BS floating around - sometimes spread by stupid people, sometimes by bad actors - and it can be very difficult to verify the accuracy of anything.

    I have also seen those reports of Russian convoys running out of fuel. One in particular was quite darkly amusing, since it involved a local encountering a stationary convoy in a forest. When the Ukrainian guy asked the Russians what was up and they told him they'd run out of fuel, he asked if they'd like a tow back to the border. After having a good laugh about that, the Russians told him (for what it's worth) that they had no idea what was going on and only a general idea of where they were supposed to be heading for.

    Another video I've seen showed a convoy - which seemed to be mainly combat bridging equipment - that had been thoroughly shot up and torched. I have no idea if that was an ambush or another stalled convoy, but the fact that it was utterly destroyed indicates pretty clearly that the almost certainly lightly armed Russian drivers and combat engineers hadn't been able to call on air, artillery or armour support (or maybe even proper infantry support) to deal with whoever was attacking them.

    It would be incredibly ironic if the Russians are really having serious problems with logistics. One of the classic examples of how Hitler's delusional overconfidence led ultimately to the failure of the Nazi regime was how he sent the Wehrmacht charging across the Russian steppes with little concern about his lines of supply, since he was absolutely certain Russia would collapse and surrender in just a few weeks. The German's inability to keep the troops and equipment properly supplied led directly to the failure of Operation Barbarossa. If the Russians are having problems keeping their vehicles on the move after just a couple of days in Ukraine, someone has screwed up in a very big way.

    I admit that I know nothing for certain about the inner workings of the relationship between Putin and his generals. But I do wonder if over-confidence in his political and military prowess and his fixation on restoring the glory of Mother Russia and creating a USSR Mk II might have resulted in him bullying his generals into believing that the Ukrainians would cave in a matter of hours, so they didn't need to commit all of the troops and they didn't need to worry about supplies. It's beginning to look like that in Putin's fantasy, the Russians would roll in, the Ukrainian people would welcome their saviours with open arms, and then everyone would settle down for a comfortable little occupation while a new government that was correctly aligned with Russian interests was sorted out.

    From what little we're seeing and hearing, it looks like the reality is that the Russians are facing are a bunch of very pissed off Ukrainians. One of the videos that's apparently gained a huge number of views is of a Ukrainian woman confronting a much bigger, armoured and armed Russian soldier on one of the streets of her home town. She walks up to him and asks him what the hell he's doing in her country, to which he obviously has no good reply. She then offers him some sunflower seeds and tells him that he should put them in his pocket so that when he dies, at least something good will come of it. To give the Russian his due, he remains polite. But that sort of confrontation in fluent Russian with someone who looks very much like his friends and family has to be making the ordinary troops - many of whom are apparently conscripts - wonder what they're doing in Ukraine and question if they're really on the side of the good guys this time.

    And, of course, there are a lot of Ukrainians who have no interest in giving the Russians something as nice as a handful sunflower seeds.

    One of the things I find most impressive about the whole situation is how president Zelenskyy is dealing with it. The guy was a comic actor, and he apparently had no aspirations to be a politician before a political party was formed by employees of the TV company which produced a show he starred in as teacher who was unexpectedly elected president. He was largely seen as a joke candidate, but he ran a good virtual campaign and he was successful. After his election in 2019, he was still seen as something of a joke, and his political naivety certainly resulted in him making some misjudgements. But over the last few weeks - and especially over the last few days - he has definitely grown into the role. The fact that he's staying in Kyiv and he's smart enough to put out videos which clearly show him outside in the city as it is now rather than with some anonymous backdrop that could be in a studio or bunker anywhere has to inspire ordinary Ukrainians who are used to politicians always looking after Number One first and foremost.

    Having said all that, if the Russian military has proved anything over the years, it is that they can be totally ruthless, murderous thugs. So now we see them deliberately targeting residential areas, power stations and petroleum depots. It's the same playbook as the one they used in Syria, Georgia, Chechnya and various other lesser actions.

    The biggest unknowns at this point are obviously just how much violence and destruction Putin is willing to inflict on people he supposedly believes are _actually_ just Russians under another name, and how much punishment the Ukrainians can take before the will to resist collapses. It's all very well the Ukrainian government arming civilians with automatic weapons and telling them how to make Molotov cocktails, but it's pretty damn hard to keep up the will to continue fighting if you're some retired guy with a couple of friends from your chess club huddling in a basement with your AK47s while Russian fuel-air missiles are turning multi-storey buildings into piles of rubble all around you (and Russian hyperbaric missiles have been spotted in the vicinity of Ukraine's border).

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    • MonteMetcalfe

      I saw funny video of an old Ukrainian woman cursing a Russian soldier and giving him sunflower seeds to put in his pockets so when he's killed he can be useful by planting the seeds.

      I do not think things are going quite as planned for the Russian.

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      • LloydAsher

        I think most Ukrainians have more to give to the russians than just sunflower seeds.

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    • LloydAsher

      I have massive respect for the president of ukraine. I would vote for him if I was Ukrainian and I would fight for him as well.

      I would of 110% understood if he moved out of ukraine into a sanctuary country. But god damn going into the streets of your own besieged city to call upon your countrymen gives me a good ol shot of patriotism.

      Idk about the monetary costs. Send ukraine weapons and aid. Jesus we spent more on gender studies in Pakistan. I have no problem with weapons being handed to friends that kill Russians for us. These friends have the added benefit of not doing another 9/11 so that's even better!

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      • Boojum

        As you've probably seen, the USA offered to get him out of Ukraine to somewhere safe (well, safer, anyway - the Russians are pretty good at assassinating people who believe they're in a safe place).

        His meme-ready response proves that he's a politician of the internet age: "I need ammunition, not a ride".

        Soon to appear as a caption on all sorts of photos all over the internet.

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      • YE

        "I have massive respect for the president of ukraine."

        Yep. Mad respect for his wartime leadership skills. What an incredible 360 from acting and comedy we've witnessed in the past few days!

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  • bigbudchonger

    Russians, they always fuck it up militarily. Even in WW2 the only reson they were useful is because there were so many of them and to invade Russia is disastrous when your enemy applies scorched earth tactics.

    As Stalin said though "Quanity has a quality all its own". Russia will win against Ukraine long term because Ukraine just hasn't got the comparative manpower, but if they try and annex the whole country they'll be in real trouble.

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    • olderdude-xx

      I disagree... The Russian people forced the Russian leadership to withdraw from Afghanistan after lots of body bags started to return home after the USA supplied the Afghans with shoulder launched missiles.

      Ukraine will be worse than that for Russia long term; and the Russian population will revolt once there are substantial casualties.

      Right now much of that is hidden as many of the Russian Troops fleeing destroyed vehicles have hidden themselves in the woods. They have limited supplies. Most will starve and freeze in those woods (It's mid winter in Ukraine). They will be finding bodies for at least the next 50 years,

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    • 1WeirdGuy

      Take mass casualties until you get the win its the russian way

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  • Meatballsandwich

    Slava Ukraini!

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  • Whatintarnation

    My fear is that Putin is just crazy enough that eventually a nuke will get used. It's all over then.

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    • YE

      You would think that it's easy for "crazy" Putin with far more warheads at his disposal to deploy heavy weaponry, but it's not.

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      • Whatintarnation

        I hope you're right about that one.

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        • YE

          Well, it's crystal clear that if Russia pounds Ukraine into submission, Putin and his enablers will be pariahs for the rest of their lives.

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    • Somenormie

      Putin doesn't know when to back out.

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    • LloydAsher

      That fear cannot hold us back from doing what is right. I mean when was the last time you heard of american assassins? Exactly. Shit we just might have some top grade shit to level moscow without Putin's knowlage.

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      • Whatintarnation

        I really don't think it's that simple. It's always going to be a tit for tat game. Even if Putin was eliminated it's not like that would be it. There would be immediate nukes coming from Russia then us and so forth. Ba bye world. Hopefully the sanctions impose enough heartache and headache for the people that they take him out. Either way I think it is a very dangerous time for the planet.

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        • LloydAsher

          It would be tit for tat if russia functioned like a normal democracy. They dont. Putin holds the majority power among oligarchs. Take out the top and the bottom will try to seize control. A counter attack requires the rigid hierarchy of russia to be on the same page, which a switch in head of state will take a long ass time.

          America could switch to a new head of state within minutes. That's the benefit of how americas democracy works. Theres like two dozen people who can undertake the presidency. During every switch people take new rolls and it will never dry from the intake.

          Russia? Takes time to determine what X politician or goverment asshat has enough cards to lead russia.

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          • Whatintarnation

            I'm just saying a prayer for the people of Ukraine. I think this is going to end badly for everyone but I'm hoping for the best.

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      • olderdude-xx

        There are international agreements that prevent a country from assassinating a leader of another country, or someone likely to assent into the leadership position.

        It's too easy for an assassin to kill any leader in the world that leaves a bunker. So the best way to personally stay alive is not to allow your country to assassinate another leader.

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        • LloydAsher

          There are international agreements to not invade sovereign countries and target civilian centers. Russia clearly didnt follow through on those rules now did they?

          America is designed to be able to easily replace the president. Russia is not. There will be massive in fighting.

          I mean russia turning on it's big red button isnt enough to get some assassins or sleeper agents ready?

          Is breaking ediquite worth it to get the decapitating blow in first?

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  • LloydAsher

    I swear to god it seems they didnt learn from the winter war. They immediately went for the capital, opening themselves up to get cut off and causing logistical hell.

    Only explanation for this for russia to do this. Is that they are just throwing their crappiest equipment and men at the problem and they honestly thought (and let's be honest some of us too) thought ukraine would fall within the initial day of invasion. Now russia is losing even more resources on a war that they are getting sanctioned the hell out of.

    Putin is trapped. If he cuts his losses theres an almost guaranteed chance for a coup d'etat. Since he started and then lost a war almost immediately. If he pushes further he might not even get overt support from China.

    Honestly it looks pretty favorable to the Ukrainians. As an american I can solidly support and hope they get a crate of high grade ordinances for our friends in ukraine.

    Ukraine has to understand why they arent getting troops from nato or America. If they were getting invaded by a similar sized power they'd get troops. Since its russia we have to be more tactful with sending actual people there. Weapons? Naw we are just donating them to a good home... makes sense to supply people who are killing our eventual enemy. Bonus points that they are the good guys in this.

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    • Boojum

      An abrupt change at the head of the Russian government and an equally abrupt cessation of hostilities and withdrawal are really the best possible outcome at this point. Although who knows who the hell we'll end up in charge of Russia then.

      But Putin has done his best to ensure that he won't be the only one held to blame if this adventure turns to shit (even though everyone in the know is certain that it is all on him personally), and he's tried to chop off at the knees all of his serious rivals to power. That's what was going on in the bizarre, sorta-reality TV event in some Kremlin rotunda with Putin sitting at a desk on one side of the vast room, while his security council minions perched on widely spaced chairs about 20 metres away across the parquet floor. Every single one of them had to stand up and say that they supported his decision to recognise as nations the fake countries he'd created in two eastern Ukrainian provinces. Once the most powerful players in his regime had done that, they could never avoid having some responsibility for everything that followed - and you can be damn sure they all knew exactly what he had in mind, even if he hadn't bothered to tell them.

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      • LloydAsher

        Still there has to be generals all they way down the chain of command that agree that first strike nuclear war is not how the arsenal is supposed to be used. MAD and all that.

        Putin can have a gun to those generals heads but those generals must have a bigger concern than their own wellbeing. To hold power? Be a general of a country of ashes?

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    • PurpleHoneycomb

      Russia has officially put his Deterence Force on high alert. Give them as much equipment as the countries can afford, but sending troops into the country is unfortunately a no go. It already was, but now there's even less of a chance.

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      • Boojum

        Holy fuck! 😲

        Even though I consider you one of the most sensible and credible IIN people, I really hoped you'd had a brain fart and fallen victim to social media BS.

        But it's fucking true! We're back in the fucking Cold War!

        I suppose that just as fears about Trump impulsively or accidentally setting off a nuclear war were always overblown because the president does not actually have a big, red button on his desk in the Oval Office labelled "Launch All Nukes", one can only hope that there are enough sane people in the chain of command between Putin and the frontline forces that nothing dire will come of this.

        It's seriously beginning to look like the guy has gone way beyond being an autocratic asshole who the civilised world could more or less deal with, and he's wandered off into a fantasy where he'll either reshape the world as he believes it should be, or he'll burn it all down.

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        • LloydAsher

          I can only hope there is a shadowy group of assassins that are clearly aware of the next target.

          Hope putin dies before any madman order is given.

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      • LloydAsher

        Get finland and sweden into nato now. The time of finlandization is over. Clearly not going into nato isnt a option for not being invaded.

        Putin has made a bed and now he has to sleep in it. I feel bad for those conscripts that are just shoveled into ukraine but then again they could always just desert and surrender. No need to march at the behest of a jackass who doesnt give a shit about your life nor grabbing the bodies of your dead. Seriously there are just dead russians just laying in the streets. I understand that they wont pick up the dead because of the risk of being shot but there are dead in the countryside with maggots and snow on them. Russia has zero remorse for getting their youth killed for a useless war.

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  • olderdude-xx

    Information after Day 5: Now it gets tough.

    A 3 mile long supply convoy made it from Belarus to the Russians just north of Kiev... Which means that that Russian Military group has fuel and supplies for at least several days.

    A 40 mile long convoy of tanks, armored vehicles, and supplies is now on its way out of Belarus headed to Kiev.

    That spells real trouble.. and Kiev may fall with all of that.

    Since the original Russian strategy has failed - now its likely massive destruction of everything (including civilian targets) until they Russia wins... or gets driven back. This would be very ugly.

    On a good side: The fundamental problem Russia has is that they are sending far to few troops to hold Ukraine if they were to conquer it (even the northern regions). They would need 3-4 times the number of troops. So the Russians will be very vulnerable to insurgent fighters.

    Within days there will be over 100,000 new western trained volunteers in country to make up the "International" Ukraine military branch from which a revitalized and well equipped army can start marching from western Ukraine to eastern Ukraine and taking back Russian controlled areas.

    The NATO countries that have Russian fighter jets are donating them to Ukraine. 56 Mig-19's and 14 SU-25's. The Ukrainian Pilots know how to fly these aircraft and fire their weapons. Ukraine pilots are already picking these aircraft up and flying them to Ukraine (with full weapons loaded).

    The Best and pleasantly surprising news is that Poland has announced that Ukraine can fly their newly expanded air-force out of several of their airbases (where the maintenance, parts, and missiles for the Mig-29's are) if they cannot fine usable airbases in Ukraine. Russia dare not attack them when they are in Poland Airspace or being serviced inside Poland.

    Speculation on my part: But I have to wonder how many Polish Mig-29 pilots resign their commission from the Polish Air-force today, only to accept a commission in the "International wing of the Ukrainian Air-force" shortly thereafter.

    If that happens... that 40 mile long convoy of tanks, armored vehicles, and supplies might quickly be 40 miles of destroyed vehicles and dead Russians.

    I can dream - can't I.

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    • LloydAsher

      Problem with long columns of slowly moving transports is that as soon as one vehicle is destroyed the entire column behind has to take notice and move around that blockage. Slow, slow, slow. Easy pickings to a force that has drone capabilities

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  • Boojum

    It's the morning of the 28th, so the start of the fifth day after the Russian invasion.

    According to a Ukrainian military spokesman, more than 5,000 Russian soldiers have so far died. Body counts of enemy combatants should always be taken with at least a tablespoon of salt. That number may have been plucked out of the air for propaganda purposes, or there might be a group in the Ukrainian defence organisation that's keeping careful count and only adding to it when they've seen photographic proof of Russian casualties. Most likely, it's something between those two extremes. There's certainly no shortage of videos and photographs of shot-up and burned-out Russian hardware, so it's certain that Russians are definitely dying, being injured and captured.

    What I find striking is that, during the ten years of the Soviet-Afghan War, it's estimated that around 15,000 Soviet soldiers were killed. If even a significant fraction of that death toll has been reached after only four full days in Ukraine, this Russian adventure will have to go down in the history books as not only a huge political miscalculation, but also as one of the worst organised and implemented military campaigns since Operation Barbarossa.

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    • LloydAsher

      To be fair most of those russian combatants were from an annexed russian federation state. So russia ain't exactly sending it's best or even full blooded russians.

      With outdated equipment and expired rations. As well as zero combat training for urban environments and 1st year conscript knowlage. The smart ones are the ones that will live.

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  • olderdude-xx

    Information After Day 4:

    My understanding is that Russia did capture a small city near the Black Sea of about 100,000 (near Crimea).

    They have not captured any other cities, and the Ukrainian Air-force and Missile defense system is still operational over much of Ukraine.

    Some EU Countries will be giving the Ukrainian Air force replacement and more modern fighter jets. Expect them to arrive within 24 hours. The pilots will need some training on the differences.

    The EU is also purchasing and supplying a whole host of military supplies for Ukraine.

    Many thousands of experienced military veterans from many western countries are headed to Ukraine to enlist in the "Foreign Legion" version of the Ukrainian military. Key is that this includes a fair amount of people who know how to operate modern western anti-aircraft missile systems, which I believe will arrive shortly.

    Here is what I understand to be a current map of how little area of Ukraine is believed to be under Russian control.

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/183C/production/_123440260_ukraine_invasion_east_map_2x640-nc.png

    Let's just say that Russia has a long way to go to conquer Ukraine - and there is plenty of places for Western assistance to safely land and new troop mobilization to be based out of (with newly supplied western equipment).

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    • LloydAsher

      That and the russian ruble has fallen by 40% the russian economy is crippled with or without conquering ukraine. The point of invading ukraine is ludicrous for what ukraine could possibly give to russia from an agricultural or manufacturing sector.

      All ukraine can give is some nice sunflower seeds
      🌻🌻🌻🌻
      Which if you didnt know was the national flower and major export of ukraine.

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      • MonteMetcalfe

        Dead Russians are gonna be another major export.

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        • LloydAsher

          That's the major export of every single country russia has invaded. Like the winter war where almost the exact same tatics where carried out.

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  • PurpleHoneycomb

    As a supporter of world peace, I'm both saddened an disappointed. I knew that a world power would, inevitably, get involved in another war after US troops had withdrawn from the middle east. I just hoped it wouldn't have been so soon. I also didn't expect it to be Russia that declared the war. China invading Taiwan was what I imagined would happen.

    I feel deep sympathy for all parties involved; barring the individuals directly in the Russian government and those enforcing its orders. While obviously my heart is mostly extended to the people od Ukraine, I do recognize that not all Russian people want this war. If what the Ukrainian media is saying is true, the conscripted men from Russia don't really want this war. The protesters who are being arrested for speaking their minds don't want the war. (No, you should not need a permit to protest. That defeats the purpose of a protest.)

    I wish there was more we, the common man, of foreign countries could do to help. I'm well aware that the group Anonymous has began taking credit for the hacking of Russian websites but there's only so much that hacking can do. It's just disheartening that this all had to happen now.

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    • LloydAsher

      There was a charging station in russia that was hacked and turned off and read only this message in russian.

      "No service available. Glory to ukraine! Glory to heros!"

      I dont even care that they are probably usa hackers. Anonymous is an easy group to hide your cyber attacks behind.

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  • Tommythecaty

    Hand the Ukraine to Putin, the alternative is potentially a world wide shit show.

    So the Ukraine will switch governments, big deal. Whole lot better than a whole lot of dead people.

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    • LloydAsher

      Being such a bitch to a foreign power over something as petty as lives. It's about ideas not lives. Russia is throwing human lives at Ukraine. Ukraine is fighting for it's right to make it's own decisions.

      Give up because people are dying? Please. People are DYING to make sure they can make free decisions without a russian yes or no.

      Fuck your petty pacifism.

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      • Tommythecaty

        The ability to make their own choices does not mean anything in the slightest if there’s nobody left to make them. Drawn out suicide is all that is. The two only choices being,

        Give up, people live, change in government.

        Fight, people die, change in government.

        Doing it the easy way, or the hard way, same result either way.

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        • LloydAsher

          I'll take drawn out suicide if it's a choice that I can make myself, not someone else's.

          Putin could withdraw his troops anytime he damn well wants. The Ukrainians dont eant be governed by putin so the balls Putin's court if he wants to continue the bloodshed or not. There will be blood if he doesnt withdraw.

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          • Tommythecaty

            You know damn well that dickhead is going to nuke them before considering backing out.

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            • olderdude-xx

              I do not believe that the Russian Nuclear Command leaders will allow Putin to use nukes.

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  • cumlordvegeta

    I think it's awesome.

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  • raisinbran

    It's not real.

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    • YE

      Same thing Putin is prolly thinking right now. I mean, five days into Russia's invasion and Russian forces haven't completed the capture of a single Ukrainian city with all it's massive hardware and troop numbers.

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      • olderdude-xx

        On Sunday I understand that they did capture a small southern city of about 100,000 people (near the Black Sea, relatively close to Crimea). I'm not sure of the name.

        But they have not captured Kharkiv which is like 15 km from the eastern border (they did try last night and were defeated). That should have been the easiest city to take due to how close it was to the Russian border.

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