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Universal Basic Income “ is a sociopolitical financial transfer policy proposal in which all citizens of a given population regularly receive a legally stipulated and equally set financial grant paid by the government without a means test. “
| Pro UBI - for all Citizens | 9 | |
| Pro UBI - for all Employed Citizens | 2 | |
| Against UBI - Favor “by necessity” system | 7 | |
| Against UBI - Against government financial sid | 5 | |
| My opinion is not here | 3 |
My concern with these sorts of systems is that they often get abused by those in power. I think that it's good in concept but I can see a few countries, my own included, taking advantage of the power.
The only way I see it being a necessity is if everyone's jobs get replaced by automation. Otherwise, I'm not really for it at this time.
take it from someone who maintains & troubleshoots lotsa automation
the physical equipment is all low grade garbage that breaks constantly and is built with not but profit in mind
and the software is contracted out to the cheapest bidder and is not only all proprietary to who the controller manufacturer is but also usually locked down by the programmer so as to squeeze more money out if changes are inevitably needed
you can buy top shelf nuclear grade stuff thatll last but itll cost a fortune and even cheap automation costs way more than anyone thinks
I actually think that even minimal UBI would create massive movement for automation innovation.
In a capitalist system, the only way to purchase goods and necessities is with money you earn by working, automation is directly threatening to workers in this system as it creates a growing lack of jobs.
I think many 1st world nations attempt to combat this by either suppressing automation, or creating ‘fluff’ jobs to fill the labor demand. 500 different cookie brands, 3000 excess overhead ‘micromanagement’ positions. It’s pointless and demoralizing work.
There are many concerns with that. One of them is that if you retain capitalism alongside a universal basic income, it will simply result in massive inflation, effectively cancelling the benefits of the universal basic income.
It seems as though the only real solution to that issue would be to either massively regulate markets or to employ full socialism. Socialism, as we have seen throughout history, fails when employed on large scale, so that would not work.
So, the only real solution would be to regulate markets, which would have to be done efficiently and without overstepping boundaries, neither of which America's government is capable of doing. There might be some other governments capable of doing that, but I am uneducated as to which ones they could be.
im old enough to remember standin in line with my grandmother for a humongous blocka government cheese
insteada givin out free money or food stamps there should be government provided food and basic household essentials
it could be sourced internally with economy of scale and be good for the manufacturers
of course itd devolve into a buncha backdoor graft fraud and backsheesh cause its the government and im cynical about that kinda thing
but itd be better than tossin cash at everyone
I kinda went into this in my comment to Cuntsicklestick. I think UBI is a bandaid solution in this way.
But I don’t believe it would cause massive inflation, as UBI should be funded by the nations actual wealth, not as non-backed Monopoly money. When I see people shake their heads at a countries wealth being in the hands of the people who make up a country, it just sounds like people are purposely being squashed by their elites.
Massively regulated markets and socialism working together seem to be making some serious positive movement in one very talked-about country right now.
Again, my only experience is with the United States, and the United States has no actual wealth. Their money only means something because they say it means something. It is backed by nothing; a mere fiat.
I do support returning to an actual standard for the national currency.
Assuming you're talking about your country, that country is currently fighting a war they thought they could win in a couple of weeks in a mere "special operation" for, I believe, six months now.
Also, do note that I'm not against regulated markets, at least, not totally. I'm against certain regulations of certain things. Price regulations, for example, are, in my opinion, not that bad. Preventing people from selling things that make no sense to be unsellable is pretty stupid. For example, most of America's market regulations are, in my opinion, absolutely moronic. As an example, there is a law in the US that states that you can't sell wheat (in any form) if it is found to contain some minuscule amount of animal feces in it. When I say minuscule, I mean minuscule. What a waste of good wheat....
Uh no. I was talking about China.
Also we never said that. An — American — General, Gen. Milley, said “Kiev will fall in 72 hours” blah blah blah. We never said that. We never hinted at how long we think *whatever* would take. We aren’t talking to anyone. So everybody scrambles to put words in our mouths and invent ‘goals’ we never set. Thats just another lie being passed around in Western media.
Thats all besides the point.
I watched a documentary on the US food and agriculture system. The amount of good food gets wasted is insane. That all these fastfood and bakeries have to throw everything away at the end of the day is insane. I think the love of suing people has ruined many many things. Farmers are paid — not — to farm so the market won’t flood.
There needs to be a culture change. We have to learn that some things have been “covered” and now should be very cheap and regularly available. I don’t know why /some/ capitalists are so afraid of people having things or for life to be easier. We should be celebrating our successes, not stifling them.
China sucks as a country. No one wants to live there, and there's a reason for that.
Anyway, I only know what I was told about that war.
I agree with you about the agriculture system in America. It is absolute trash and needs to be overhauled. I think it stems from this idea that's in many American minds that the poor should live like the rich, even if they cannot afford to do so. They insist on these "minimum quality levels" that shouldn't exist, because the poor just actually can't afford them, and then they insist that there is some sort of inherent issue with capitalistic greed that causes the poor to not be able to afford things, when, in reality, it's just their own excessive standards.
Like, if you go to an American grocery store, you will never ever find grade B beef, nor will you ever find grade B flour. They don't exist in the market for the average consumer, even though, if they were available, the food would be cheaper. But everyone continues to insist on these stupidly high minimum requirements that don't help anyone and just result in massive waste.
My wife is Chinese. She was born and raised and lived there until she visited here on a Russia-China medical internship program through the military and we met. I’ve visited many times to meet with the in-laws. The Chinese are very proud of their country and a lot has changed over the past couple years due to their work for improvement.
I don’t blame you for your current views on either of us. I’ve seen what is said.
I do think that there is a unrealistic bubble of quality that a lot of Americans find themselves in, but I do think America is very very capable of producing enough to easily be able to support their people. Unless I’m just being blinded by the flashy lights and high numbers.
It’s baffling to me that a nation like America, which boasts alllllll of this money, has people that struggle at all. While working the high hours that they do. Labor laws make it very rare for Russians to ever work more than 50 hours a week, and we get a month of paid vacation. How a country can spend as much as they do and still have people rioting in the streets, setting places on fire, saying nobody can afford anything, all of this panic, is a very very weird thing for me to try to understand.
With all the labor shortages and supply chain issues, we obviously aren’t ready for universal basic income. UBI would be for a time in the distant future where automation can perform most jobs, which we aren’t even remotely close to.
Sure, give everyone a million dollars. I'm sure it will retain its value.
Finland tried it and it failed. People love to praise the Nordic countries for their "socialism" (I know Finland's isn't Nordic and only asshats think the Nordic Economic Model is anywhere near actual socialism), so if even they can't get it right it's probably a good indication it's impossible.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/2/editorial-finland-tries-to-make-universal-basic-in/
The primary reason why those nordic countries (I include finland with that economic term)
Is because they are culturally very homogeneous. People love paying high taxes when conceivably they are only helping their own people.
Since it didnt work there it sure as hell wont work in the chaotic opinion clusterfuck of america (wouldnt have it any other way) it's not dog eat dog. But people dont expect the goverment to do jack shit for them. Thus paying high taxes ain't a winnable issue. No matter how noble the branding.
UBI would encourage labor in sectors that can’t afford (if you believe that they can’t) to pay their employees a comfy wage. I cover this a bit in my comment I already wrote.
Mass unemployment is not an option currently, therefore no nation is going to create a system where there is ‘enough’ UBI and labor is so unappealing that everyone would just be at home collecting a check.
Biden tried doing this with the stimulus checks. We had a bunch of people refuse to work, those remaining had thier workload trippled, and half the people who were supposed to be getting the stimulus never auctully got any of that money. So as you can see this didnt work out very well. I Became homeless during the pandemic and told by IRS and tax company if I didnt get that money oh well. Would have been nice to get that money when I was homeless and struggling to relocate using my savings.
This is my post, just wanted to separate my case as to not make the post too wordy.
Universal Basic Income differs from ‘welfare’ as it does not provide individuals with what they ‘need’, but rather a flat rate amongst all recipients.
UBI rewards the citizens of nations for their countries’ export productions/resources and would greatly encourage advancements in automation. I think UBI could be incredibly important for resource-rich 3rd world nations that are victims of being mined to death - nationalizing labor forces would be encouraged as to provide a larger pool of funding.
UBI could be a resolution to job shortages due to automation ‘taking over’, would make working ‘lower wage, unskilled’ labor less ‘painful’ as the low salary that many labor jobs carry would be given a crutch by UBI - this could sadly be taken advantage of if private corporations were to say “We can pay you less because you receive money anyway”.
I believe UBI is inherently supportive of patriotism. UBI is the peoples reward for the nations success. In a sense UBI is the people taxing the government for what the working class supplies in labor/innovation/successes that results in what makes a nation wealthy.
UBI aid already exists in practice for certain areas in the form of tax cuts, or monthly checks, for workers who reside in areas that either need need the population or is highly productive.
There are areas of the market that are “already covered” in the sense that either production/automation has been ‘too successful’ and has resulted in either a surplus of product or a surplus of people to provide the product. Instead of punishing workers for the value of this surplus product dropping and dropping into nothing, they are instead rewarded for their ability to have “figured out” how to supply their good/service so efficiently.
I'm pro capitalism as a means of encouragement to do more work. I'm also a proponent of people having to work in order to not starve to death.
I feel for those who cannot work due to no fault of their own.
UBI on the other hand up an removes some peoples drive to work. Some people are 100% ok with scraping by, and that's just another mouth to feed that's doing zero work while the rest of us have our taxes going to their laziness.
Call me harsh. But no work no bread. Unless you were crippled (mentally or physically)
It's not just about the money either. People need purpose in their lives and the most productive societal solution is working. People need encouragement to work and being paid more to do more work sounds fair both to the total production of the workforce and to the individual doing their duties.
I'd feel so motivated and happy going into a job each day, even a really shit job, knowing that I don't need to be there in order to survive, that I'm only doing it to earn a little extra spending money. I also wouldn't have to work however many hours the job demands, I could work 20 hours/week if I wanted to. And it'd also cut down on the amount of asshole bosses in the world, people who know they can get away with treating their workers like shit because they need that job to survive.