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I say the man who had him in a chokehold knew when he could have released his hold, but just kept choking until he was dead!! manslaughter NO murder Yes
Jordan Neely was a cockroach and they'll probably erect a statue in his honor.
I do not care. This menace had tried to murder people in the past, and was released. This person tried to to kidnap a 7 year old girl, and was released. It took a good man to take this creature out of society and that man is being punished for his service to society while the reprobates of morality try to make that monster a martyr. More good men need to normalize taking these reprobates out of the occasion so that the law does their fucking job.
I'm glad he's dead. May the devil forever torment that fucker's asshole, and may the time come for those that defend such a monster, the Left, get similar treatment.
Fuck. Jordan. Neely, and fuck you too if you defend him.
You should care. You are part of the problem that perpetuates this type of situation. You won't even look at the facts. He had no murder charges, only assualts. And most of his charges are minor offense such as open liquor. He did time for child endangerment and was released. Is he to be executed for that after time servedm And the fact remains that none of this was known at the time of his death. He wasn't even behaving in a violent manner when he was assaulted. If you prevent the law from working in this case how do you expect it to ever work? Daniel was not a hero. He lacked self control.
But I don't expect you to understand.
I refuse to. I'm not perpetuating the narrative that bad people deserve more sympathy than their victims or the general public that are forced to endure the will of bad people, it feeds in to the idea that the safety of the innocent public is secondary to helping those that have inflicted evil on innocent people.
I have looked at the facts. I never claimed he murdered anyone, only that he could have caused the death of others. "Most of his crimes are minor offenses"..."MOST" being the key word there, not all. He tried to kidnap a 7 year old and only served 4 months, which is absolutely abhorrent. He violently assaulted an elderly person by slugging them in the face, an action that could have had extreme consequences from permanent brain damage to outright murder. I can't see if he served any time for that last one either.
You mention that none of this was known at the time of the situation but I already addressed this in my other response to you here.
"He wasn't behaving in a violent manner." He was in an entrapped area with others screaming at them that he doesn't care if he goes to prison. This is a clear and evident cause for concern for the safety of others in his proximity.
"If you prevent the law from working in this case how do you expect it to ever work?"
I agree, in fact this is my entire argument. If someone like him was allowed to be released despite his hostile tendencies, then why should anybody expect him not to be released a short while after once again to put the safety of others in jeopardy?
I understand entirely, I just don't agree with you. So I'll ask you. Should Jordan Neely have been released in to the public considering his violent tendencies that border on homicidal paired with his mental issues?
My FIRST approach to this is tougher laws that takes these people out of the general public so that these situations don't happen, but if these people are free to run amuck from law enforcement then the people are free to enact their justice where law enforcement failed to enforce theirs.
Good people don't discard the life of another for any reason outside of war. He was brainwashed military who believed he was judge jury and executioner over the situation. I believe it was an accident but deadly force was not necessary. It really just shows that mental health is a real problem and society had already thrown this person away. Why wasn't he worth saving? Those damn cracks just keep getting bigger. He probably should have been institutionalized but instead we let him run amok with no help. Blame the individual all you want but see how well you cope with schizophrenia and watching your mother get murdered. I am not defending his actions. I am blaming society for not looking at the big picture.
Good people absolutely disregard lives if those lives are used to endanger the lives of innocent people. This idea that the label of "good" is exclusive to pacifists is a dangerous idea.
Ideally it SHOULDN'T have to come to that but if authorities and those in charge of authorities are not using the authority and facilities we pay for in order to have such dangerous individuals separated and detained from the general public then that leaves the public with two options, either accept living in an environment where such evil individuals are free to murder and/or molest them and their loved ones in a perpetual dance of struggle where the public have to hope they aren't killed in attempts to restrain such evil people only for those evil people to be released and for the cycle to continue OR they can take such evil out of the environment permanently to ensure they and their loved ones are safe.
If the authorities aren't doing their job to prevent evil from inflicting evil on to innocent people then it falls on good men to remedy the situation permanently.
His sob story means nothing to me. His struggles do not negate that he tried to kill people multiple times, or that he tried to kidnap a child, Gods only know what he would have done to that little girl.
What we do know is that if they won't at the very least keep such men detained, then the people should have the right to remove him before he attempts to continue his trend of evil behaviour.
Maybe once authorities realize that this is something the general public are willing to do they will start taking these situations seriously and do their f*cking job to keep innocent people safe.
You make it sound like Daniel Penny knew who Jordan Neely was. He didn't have a clue as to the back story of the person he felt it was okay to use lethal restraint against. It is dangerous for people to think they can take the law into their own hands. Especially when they have no idea who they are attacking.
But "good" is subjective. I just have higher standards for people. The man who kills his daughter's rapist is excused because of the personal connection. This case is that of a stranger killing a homeless man he thought was a threat. If we go around killing everyone we think is a threat to us personally without knowing what we are doing. We are no better than the evil we claim to be stopping. That isn't how good people behave. That's how people with mental problems behave.
It's not relevant if he did or not. Neely was well known in the area for these evil outbursts so it wouldn't surprise me if Penny did know him but it's not necessary for him to know or not. With Neely's history aside, I still stand by Penny. Neely was becoming hostile towards innocent people, making those innocent people fear for their lives and safety, they were right to use force to detain him. Neely dying wasn't intentional but a consequence Neely created. If an evil person is killed in attempts to detain due to that evil person causing a circumstance in which they are deserving of restraint then I don't believe that innocent people should be prosecuted for an unintended consequence of protecting themselves from evil. It was an accident caused by the need to protect themselves.
In retrospect, we can see that Neely deserved the treatment he got. Even if we were to say this sets a dangerous precedent I believe we can look back in retrospect and say that such an evil person's death at the hand of an innocent person should revoke the punishment of the innocent being seen as guilty.
The people absolutely should be able to take the law in to their own hands when the designated law enforcement fails to do their job to the consequence of innocent people's safety. This is why we have law enforcement, so that these situations don't persist, and if the law fails the role they were designated to enforce then we have to default back to the people enacting their own justice, less there be no justice at all.
I disagree with your representation of the situation. You have already admitted that you believe in some circumstances the people are morally justified to take justice in to their own hands, and I agree with you on your example, however I extend that mindset to those that are having to endure the failings of law enforcement. Neely wasn't just some homeless man and Penny wasn't just some stranger. Neely was an aggravating, physically imposing, safety threatening mad man with no consideration for the safety of others by his own admission in the situation, Penny was a man that took justice in to his own hands to prevent the evil will Neely was intending to inflict and had inflicted prior on to innocent people. This wasn't a situation of Penny assuming a stranger was a threat for no reason, this was a situation where Neely declared himself a threat and Penny acknowledged it, that Neely was a threat to Penny and others on that train.
So while I agree you can't just go around killing people you merely "believe" to be a threat, I have to disagree with you that those that have presented themselves as a threat and intend to inflict that threat on to innocent people means that those innocent people should not be able to kill such evil in defence, especially if that evil is being inflicted on to us by the reluctance of those we give authority to in order to ensure such situations don't occur in continuum.
If law enforcement has the ability to detain such people they acknowledge to be a threat as to not put innocent people at risk then it falls on innocent people to ensure the person is no longer a threat to the public.
I don't give a shit about anybody's excuses for some ones bad behavior be it having a poor upbringing/watching your mother get killed/being homeless I don't care, if you threaten me/my loved ones/A child (like the one he tried to kidnap)/or an innocent defenseless person (like that elderly woman he pushed onto the train tracks) then I. Am. Going to hurt you & the law or threat of jail time will not stop me. If law enforcement won't punish crime then the public will, if you don't want vigilantism then vote in people who will arrest & keep criminals in jail/prison/mental institutions because this will only get worse if not.
Vigilantes won't solve the problem. And if you have a personal connection, I get it. It's when you don't that I have issue with. He didn't know the man he was killing had a record. He wasnt even being violent, just belligerent. Bars would get pretty messy if everyone started killing people for being beligerent. Hell, this place would get quiet fast if that were the case.
"Vigilantes won't solve the problem."
Nugatory: It doesn't matter if it will solve the problem, it's what will happen. If people don't want it to happen then vote in people who will arrest & keep criminals in jail/prison/mental institutions because it will keep happening if not.
"And if you have a personal connection, I get it. It's when you don't that I have issue with."
& that right there is why crime is rampant in the USA, if crime isn't being punished it won't stop. If the police won't do it, civilians will & there is nothing you can do to stop them except vote in people who are hard on crime.
"He didn't know the man he was killing had a record. He wasnt even being violent, just belligerent."
Irrelevant: & this never would have happened if he was kept in jail/prison/A mental institution the past 40+ times he was arrested instead of letting him free because of the soft on crime policies NY has, If anyone's at fault it's NY citizens for voting majorly democrat for 60+ years straight.
"Bars would get pretty messy if everyone started killing people for being beligerent. Hell, this place would get quiet fast if that were the case."
Acceptable: You threaten me or be unkind to me, i'm assaulting you.
I suppose law & order would have been the best route to take, but there is NO Law & Order!! Chaos and who has the biggest gun.
Yup. If a man can try to kill a woman and then try to kidnap a 7 year old girl, only to be released? Then your life is forfeit in my eyes. If law enforcement won't subdue you permanently then the people of the community has the moral right to subdue you permanently.
We finally have a solution to the homeless problem, treat them like the animals they are. Manslaughter only applies to civilized humans.
I can only assume Neely is a Black man who was killed by police because that's the only time a non-celebrity's death is a topic of conversation. I'm glad I don't know details. I'm willfully ignorant about current events
Correct, neely was a black Michael Jackson impersonator on the subway with 44 prior charges. A guy chokeholded him for 3 minutes, after he was being a stereotypical crazy guy on the train, threatening people but not actively attacking. police took 15 minutes to get there and he was dead.
In hindsight it would of been a good idea to check for a pulse after he was limp for a minute. Not to say it was a movie chokehold that took 6 seconds. Dude was struggling for a while.
His formal charges is manslaughter as he obviously wasnt trying to kill him but there is a valid argument to him being reckless. The prosecution surprise surprise wants it to be murder 1.
Unlike prior cases of self defense it seems like New York is 50/50 in its judgement.
If it had been a black guy who killed a cracker or MAGA hat wearing person, for calling him a gay faggot. The black guy would have been a hero and the dead guy charged posthumously with a hate crime and his estate ordered to pay 5 million for emotional damages. USA is really f---ed up!
85% of that actually happened.
Look up Patriot Prayer supporter Aaron Danielson (RIP) being shot in the back of the head by a BLM supporter, VICE interviewed his killer after the video went viral. People were celebrating/praising him for committing that murder.
Happy ending though don't worry, the cops found out where he was because of that interview & shot him to death after he pulled a gun on them.
The fact of the matter is the world is a better place without people like Jordan Neely and George Floyd. But holding onto a rear naked choke for 15 minutes would obviously kill someone and under the law thats murder. Unlike black people I dont simp for criminals even if they're white. The law is the law charge him for murder and let a jury decide. He killed that man and he should have known.